Canadian Healthcare

[Njaco]

Just got this email and I'm not sure if it correctly represents the issue. Can my friends up North enlighten me?

Subject: Canadian HealthCare...(keep in mind, Hillary Clinton)



This was sent from Canada to a friend in the States.

I saw on the news up here in Canada where Hillary Clinton introduced her new health care plan. Something similar to that we have in Canada. I also heard that Michael Moore was raving about the health care up here in Canada in his latest movie. As your friend and someone who lives with the Canada health care plan I thought I would give you some facts about this great medical plan that we have in Canada.

1) The health care plan in Canada is not free. We pay a premium every month of $96. for Shirley and I to be covered. Sounds great eh. What they don't tell you is how much we pay in taxes to keep the health care system afloat. I am personally in the 55% tax bracket. Yes 55% of my earnings go to taxes. A large portion of that and I am not sure of the exact amount goes directly to health care our #1 expense.

2) I would not classify what we have as health care plan, it is more like a health diagnosis system. You can get into to see a doctor quick enough so he can tell you "yes indeed you are sick or you need an operation" but now the challenge becomes getting treated or operated on We have waiting lists out the ying yang some as much as 2 years down the road.

3) Rather than fix what is wrong with you the usual tactic in Canada is to prescribe drugs. Have a pain here is a drug to take- not what is causing the pain and why. No time for checking you out because it is more important to move as many patients thru as possible each hour for Government re-imbursement

4) Many Canadians do not have a family D octor.

5) Don't require emergency treatment as you may wait for hours in the emergency room waiting for treatment.

6) Shirley's dad cut his hand on a power saw a few weeks back and it required that his hand be put in a splint - to our surprise we had to pay $125. for a splint because it is not covered under health care plus we have to pay $60. for each visit for him to check it out each week.

7) Shirley's cousin was diagnosed with a heart blockage. Put on a waiting list Died before he could get treatment.

Government allots so many operations per year. When that is done no more operations, unless you go to your local newspaper and plead your case and embarrass the government then money suddenly appears.

9)The Government takes great pride in telling us how much more they are increasing the funding for health care but waiting lists never get shorter. Government just keeps throwing money at the problem but it never goes away. But they are good at finding new ways to tax us, but they don't call it a tax anymore it is now a user fee.

10) A friend needs an operation for a blockage in her leg but because she is a smoker they will not do it. Despite paying into the health care system all these years. My friend is 65 years old. Now there is talk that maybe we should not treat fat and obese people either because they are a drain on the health care system. Let me see now, what we want in Canada is a health care system for healthy people only. That should reduce our health care costs.

11) Forget getting a second opinion, what you see is what you get.

12) I can spend what money I have left after taxes on booze, cigarettes, junk food and anything else that could kill me but I am not allowed by law to spend my money on getting an operation I need because that would be jumping the queue. I must wait my turn except if I am a hockey player or athlete then I can get looked at right away. Go figger. Where else in the world can you spend money to kill yourself but not allowed to spend money to get healthy.

13) Oh did I mention that immigrants are covered automatically at tax payer expense having never contributed a dollar to the system and pay no premiums.

14) Oh yeh we now give free needles to drug users to try and keep them healthy.

[mkloby]

Awesome. I've read several articles and books that cover the issues plaguing socialized medicine throughout the world.

Many chest thumping Canadians will deny any problem exists. I'll be the first to admit that there are problems in our American system - but the answer is certainly not socialization. Try reworking the judicial system w/ regard to frivolous lawsuits to knock out the nonsense we have with malpractice, which filing the suit for many is a no cost option since the shark will often take the case for free unless you win.
Try doing something about the billions of dollars spent annually on illegals receiving healthcare in the US. In NJ - while many hospitals close throughout the state causing an alarming situation, think that hospitals in places like Perth Amboy will close? Certainly not, there's too much charity care funding they receive.

All these costs are being passed along to the consumer - whether picked up by insurance or paid by the individual themself. It's not the healthcare industry itself that is evil and distorted.

Oh - and it's about time Canada's free ride on the backs of American drug companies comes to an end also.

[FLYBOYJ]

As I have stated many times I lived in Canada for 5 years. Some of the scenarios mentioned above can be true but I also think it varies province to province. I heard stories about the surgical "waiting list" but at the same time when I went to a doctor there I had no problems getting care. I had an irregular heart beat and received a battery of test to see if I was OK. I did not wait at all...

My feeling about the whole thing (as discussed with some of our Canadian friends on earlier posts) is the health care system Canada has worth the tax the average Canadian has to pay. IMO I rather receive a tax write off on my health plan premiums than pay that same amount to a government bureaucracy.

[Matt308]

Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ

IMO I rather receive a tax write off on my health plan premiums than pay that same amount to a government bureaucracy.

And that is the difference between a liberal and conservative. Take responsibility for yourself. And if you choose not to, then pay the consequences. Just don't ask my family to pay for your consequences. I prefer to spend my life energy on my family not somebody elses.

[pbfoot]

I believe it is extremely exagerated there is some modicum of truth so I'll respond point by point
1 I pay no premium
2 some waiting but no wait for emergency
3 Crap
4 Agreed but many don't look for one either rather go to emergency or walk in clinics
5 no different then the US if the ADs I hear out of BUffalo are any indication of clinics promising waits of under 2 hours
6 Never heard of that
7 nonsense
8 doesn't sound right to me but of course there are exceptions to any rule
9 work in progress
10
11 crap
12 not true
13 and 14 true

[pbfoot]

Had this article for a little while i guess this is the time to post it
Seattle–The personal ad begins as they all do.

She tells a bit about herself, describes a bit about the man she wants to meet, the usual quirky bit about not minding baldness and then the kicker: Only Canadians need apply.

Jeanne Sather wrote her personal ad for a husband initially as a joke, a poke at what she considered a serious and frankly life-threatening issue.

For nine years she has fought breast cancer and the slow decline of her bones and body. There are times when she feels fine, but always pressing against her is the fight she cannot win. Her life savings are draining away as she pays higher and higher medical bills.

Marrying a Canadian won't cure Sather of her cancer, but it will solve one looming problem among a host of many. She will have medical insurance and access to health care.

"Someone said this and I realized how true it is," says Sather, 52, a Seattle resident who lives less than two hours from the Canadian border. "In the U.S., your romantic relationship can determine your health-care insurance."

The "last hope" insurance she has costs $800 a month. It covers her treatments, which total $300,000 a year – a burden she will have to bear once her insurance runs out in less than three years.

So she pondered the question: Would she marry someone just for their health-care benefits? After she was diagnosed in 2001, Sather often discussed marrying a gay friend who offered his hand – and his excellent private health-care benefits. But the idea was rejected because too many of her friend's co-workers knew he was gay.

Just two days after she posted her ad on her blog, assertivepatient .com, on Labour Day, Sather received her first serious response. That set her wondering if she could connect with someone who could solve her financial worries.

What began as a joke has become a serious enough quest that Sather has found herself fantasizing about marriage to two men she has never met.


A third proposal is from a female University of Toronto student who is not gay but nevertheless offered to marry Sather.

The student wrote: "The fact that your country doesn't have a universal health-care program when most every other industrialized nation in the world has seen to putting one together is completely inexcusable.

"As such, I'm offering my hand in marriage if it will help you receive treatment without having to declare bankruptcy."

Two weeks ago, Sather went to Vancouver to meet one man but the "spark wasn't there."

He later emailed to say he was troubled by the fact that she brought a friend to their first meeting and that she didn't seem very focused on the occasion. Sather says she was worried about throwing up because of nausea from a recent bout of radiation.

The first man to email her had lost two spouses to cancer, including his first wife who was diagnosed with breast cancer at age 25 and died three years later. The man said he understood fate and expressed his regret that he fell outside of Sather's age criteria.

Her ad states she's looking for someone: "Age 45 to about 57. Canadian citizen living in Vancouver, B.C., or willing to relocate there. Cancer patient or survivor. Open-minded. Bit of a risk taker. Warm hearted but not clinging. Bald OK."

She wanted someone in Vancouver so she could be close enough to visit her two sons, who are both in university.



Sather has received lots of online support but also scorn from both Americans and Canadians.

"Are you employable, are you able to work a 40-hour week?" wrote one Alberta resident. "You want to come up here and mooch off Canada's health care."

In Minnedosa, Man., pastor Shawn Ankenmann says he's been trying to find a spouse for Sather after hearing about her ad through friends. He hopes Canadians spend part of this weekend giving thanks that they don't rely on U.S. health care.

"It's short-sighted of people to say that she can't come up here to use the health-care system, which is one of our greatest legacies," says Ankenmann.

"Some of the Canadians who are complaining about her think nothing about going down to shop in the U.S. to buy cheese and milk and clothes because it's cheaper and they think our taxes are too high. We should open our hearts to all who need help."

Laurie Kingston, a blogger in Ottawa who also has breast cancer, says Sather's website made her realize how much difference a border can make.

"We're not choosing between my kids and their after-school activities and mama's health care and that's a choice Americans are making every day," she says.

"It's not like after I'm gone there's going to be a crushing debt for my family to deal with.

"In Jeanne's case, I don't think one person is going to make or break the health-care system."

Sather acknowledges she can afford to live in a house, bought with money made when she was a teacher. Now unable to work full-time, she's painting her home sunny orange in preparation for the grey rainy winter ahead.

But her health allows her to work only part-time and she has regularly borrowed against equity in her home to make ends meet.

She has beaten the odds living this long but knows time and money are running out.

"This is a very cold country in that regard and it is a country that blames the victim," she says. "There's a shunning of sick people."

So she'll keep looking at responses to her ad, but won't marry just any old Canadian.

"I wouldn't go into a relationship I didn't care about," she says. "I know I have a lot to offer someone."

[Njaco]

Thanks Pb. I know our system is broke but I wasn't sure about Canada. I'm sure some of those points are exaggerated. Point one you said you pay no premium but is the taxes legit.

As much as I can't stand the profits made by drug companies and the decisions taken out of the hands of doctors by health insurance companes, a government run system I think would not work.

As a slight example (in the context of government run programs). A recent study of airport security found it lacking at many airports. They sent fake bomb parts and bombs through screeners. LA airport (which are run by government screeners) detected 25% of the bombs and San Fran airport (a private company) caught 80% of the bombs. Hope any health care system isn't run like this.

[mkloby]

PB - regarding point 12, I don't know about the whole hockey player thing, but isn't it ILLEGAL for Canadians to pay and receive their own healthcare in Canada?

You do have a fair number of such inclined individuals that come to the US to receive healthcare.

The vast majority of Americans that procure their own health insurance would receive worse quality healthcare if our system transitioned to socialized medicine with all being covered. Am I going to reduce the quality of my family's healthcare so those that make poor choice after poor choice can increase their quality - NOT A CHANCE.

Those that promote socialized medicine in the US know this - so they play on emotions citing "the children." They ignore that there are also many state programs that cover such individuals, in addition to federal.

[Instal]

I personally think the best system will be a combination of private and public health care and I think that is inevitable in Canada. As to the state of health care in this country right now please read the following with attention to time and dates.
Hey Joe, Merry Christmas to you. Rose has had what we are calling a cardiac incident. This is actually a mild heart attack. She woke up last Tuesday with a sever pain in her left arm and what she described as severe heart burn. We didn't know what all this meant at the time but at 8:00 am I took her to emergency anyway. She was admitted immediately and underwent a series of tests. At 3:00 pm she was transferred to a different hospital where Victoria's cardiac team is. More tests were done that evening and she was scheduled for a angiogram the next morning at 8:00 am. It was discovered that she had a complete blockage of her L.A.D. artery also known as the "widow maker". Much to everyone's amazement including many cardiac doctors she had "grown" her own bypass artery that most probably saved her life. The doctors said that the new artery was a result of all the exercise she has been doing like the 56k marathon that she completed in September. She underwent a angioplasty in two arteries and a angioplasty with stint in the main artery. This was all done at the same time as the original exploratory angiogram. She was released from the hospital at 3:00 on Thursday and I was very happy to have her home for Christmas. It was the best present I could have hoped for. I have heard that we have allot of problems with our health care system. Well I am a witness to the fact that we have the best health care system in the world. Every person we encountered during this process was the most caring, professional person I have ever met, from the cardiac surgeons to the nurses in the ward Rose received the best care anyone could possibly hope for. It is Dec 27 at the time of this writing and Rose is resting and regaining her strength every day. My challenge now is to keep her from jumping back in to her old routine and doing too much before she is ready. For anyone that knows Rose you will understand what a daunting task that is. There will be some changes around our house as we both have quit smoking and will be eating much healthier. Perhaps that is our silver lining. I want to thank everyone for thinking about us during this time and have a happy and prosperous new year. I know I will now that Rose is home and on her way to a complete recovery

[Instal]

Rose is my wife by the way.

[Instal]

Sorry one more thing. Total cost $0.00.

[pbfoot]

My mother had what suspected to be a stroke within 4hours she had MRI"s catscans and every test they could do it turned out it wasn't a stroke but ALS but they had keyed up a visiting nurse etc to come to the home on a regular basis all with no grief or fighting with insurance companies or there carriers something my elderly Dad did not need to deal with or worry whether if he would have to "sell the farm " . . My friends newborn was is serious condition after birth she was air evaced to a top notch University hospital about 30 miles away. There was one DR for every 10 kids and 1 nurse per 2 in the intensive care neo natal centre. Cost for both nil .Certainly there are times when things get messed up but that happens everywhere but I don't mind spending xtra on my case of beer for the comfort I have knowing if something was to befall me I am in good hands
By the way Ronald Macdonald house is a beautiful thing and they should be highly praised

[mkloby]

That is excellent PB - it really is. However, I had a similar experience with my son in the NICU when he was born. Cost to me - 0. That type of experience is not unique to nations with socialized medicine, as some of you tend to believe.

I'd rather pay less for the beer and still know that I AM TAKING CARE OF MY FAMILY THE WAY I SHOULD BE. Call me a crazy capitalist.

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by mkloby

I'd rather pay less for the beer and still know that I AM TAKING CARE OF MY FAMILY THE WAY I SHOULD BE. Call me a crazy capitalist.

I think any social health care system will be more burdonsome tax-wise than paying a extra buck or two for a beer.

[mkloby]

Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ

I think any social health care system will be more burdonsome tax-wise than paying a extra buck or two for a beer.

Oh for sure - I was just using PB's example of beer. The tax rates paid are clearly indicative of exactly that.