The Fall of the United States

Erich · 12-25-2006, 12:25 PM

crap on gay rights ...........no special privleges for those that somehow think they are special. what kind of foolary is this ? yes well we knew years ago before you were born this was going to happen, with even more bizarre things in the name of free speech
geez i grew up in that BS era of the 60's so I have a very strong after taste of all of it even now ~

the church and constitution were never to be separate in it's original form my dear young one

mkloby · 12-25-2006, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delusional

It's ironic that you list open borders and immigration, mkloby, when there is a conservative backlash against these issues much more than there is a liberal push. My uncle is currently stationed in Las Cruces, New Mexico for border patrol, a job he never thought he would be asked to serve as a GPS specialist in the U.S. Air Force. Separation of church and state is as old as our nation itself. And personally, considering that they are people as well and that the Constitution is supposed to protect and serve all of us, the gay rights movement has my full support.

armypilot, the only point that your post made was the original point of my choice in a screen name. Thanks for stating the obvious.

No liberal push for open borders and free immigration? My family is from NJ/NY area - judging by the amount of demonstrations and protests against the GOP House bill 4437... there certainly is a strong liberal push for this.

Separation of church and state is as old as our country? In and of istelf, it's an ambiguous catch phrase that means absolutely nothing... taken from an obscure Jefferson letter. If you mean by "sep of church and state" that the gov't cannot establish a national religion or prohibit the free exercise of religion, then I agree with you whole-heartedly. If you want it to mean something other than what's in the US Constitution - then I disagree. Please consider this - Thomas Jefferson may have been a brilliant man, but he also supported the institution of slavery... just something to think about.

Gay rights is a trickier matter. In the US there exists sharp resentment of the gay rights movement - which is why gay marriage gets struck down by every referendum in which it is put forth - yes even in places like Oregon. Take, for example, should gays be able to adopt children? This won't have public support either. Americans by and large are against it. The problem lies w/ activist liberal judges that sideskirt the democratic process by imposing their belief system on the law - a power that was never intended to be given to the judiciary in the US Constitution.

Erich · 12-25-2006, 01:26 PM

I cannot empasize my sentiments earlier ......... when America's population doesn't care then it's all over. you all may not think it could ever happen but look at the changes since 1964 a year I would like NOT to remember

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 12-25-2006, 01:29 PM

Sorry Dellusional but your name seems to fit here.

Erich · 12-25-2006, 01:37 PM

Chris, Merry Christmas to you and yours ........

you know of what I speak by your service in the mid-east........ when the local populace does not care and allows government to succeed over all wishes then doom is at hand

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 12-25-2006, 01:46 PM

Yes I do Erich and Merry Christmas to you and your family as well.

Soundbreaker Welch? · 12-26-2006, 02:46 AM

Merry Christmas, and I since I live in the USA I sure don't want it to be destroyed by something, even though it has faults.

Delusional · 12-26-2006, 03:08 PM

Erich, I do not see how the gays are asking for "special" privileges when all they are asking for are the same rights afforded to straight Americans. Furthermore, it's not the gays who think they are "special." It's conservative Americans who think they are "special," and not in a way that is beneficial to the gays.

mkloby, you are once again either putting words into my mouth or simply "misinterpreting" my posts. I never claimed that there was no liberal push for open borders and immigration; I simply said that there is more of a conservative backlash than a liberal push. Of course, the issue has both its opponents and proponents working hard to further their cause and their ideas.

Thomas Jefferson was one of the few forefathers to ever free his slaves. He tried to ban slavery in the original form of the Declaration of Independence, but many southern states never would have signed the declaration if they were also signing away their livelihood (slavery). He truly believed that all men were created equal, even those of a different color than himself. He even professed to being in love with a slave woman, with whom he had several children. I mostly meant freedom of religion, yes, but our forefathers also believed that church and state should be separate institutions in terms of influence, as well. In other words, they did not want the equivalence of the Catholic or Protestant Church in America. Religion was never meant to rule the political scene of the United States, and vice-versa.

I disagree that the majority of Americans are against the gay rights movement and against gays adopting children. Many of the people whom you assume are against the movement are probably undecided or simply don't care. Our legislatures do not always reflect the opinion of the majority. With the Republican majority finally breaking in Congress, we will see what happens, although the Democrats do not have a large enough majority to guarantee any real change. Furthermore, gay rights is not struck down in every place in which it is put forth. Massachusetts has legalized gay marriage, and San Francisco ... well, we all remember that fiasco. The gays have also made huge strides in partnership law.

FLYBOYJ · 12-26-2006, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delusional

Erich, I do not see how the gays are asking for "special" privileges when all they are asking for are the same rights afforded to straight Americans. Furthermore, it's not the gays who think they are "special." It's conservative Americans who think they are "special," and not in a way that is beneficial to the gays.

Right now under power of attorney and beneficiary laws they DO have the same rights as married couples in most states, all it takes is the signature of a piece of paper.

Let me tell you something - I am conservative, at the same time I could care less if one is gay or not. What one does behind closed doors with who and what is a personal matter as should be sexual orientation - the issue here is a so-called recognition of "rights" based on sexual orientation. How many "Heterosexual Pride Parades" have you seen?!?!? One's sexual preference is a choice (arguably determined at birth) and that choice shouldn't be legislated. What next, special rights for "Bi" individuals?!?!?

BTW - I once lived next door to a gay couple - they were the best neighbors I ever had. Again I could care less what they did behind closed doors and they could could care less if I was heterosexual (My ex-girfriend and I actually had dinner with them). The way it should be.

Erich · 12-26-2006, 03:34 PM

while I do not have to add to Joe's statements as he is on the money I will reply in brief. My wife HAD 2 homosexual cousins, they had **** heads for fathers and desired later in life for a more intimate relationship(s) aka men. both died of aids that they brought upon themselves. think about the term "special", yes they still think they deserve and all the world should comply. You are young, in time you will see what I mean. I've counseled over a dozen men who wanted "out" of the Homo world to be on a straight and morally right path . . . ......

pbfoot · 12-26-2006, 03:36 PM

Flyboy is right .What more rights do you need . But us Canadians went goofy and allowed Neil and Bob to marry now and for what reason

Delusional · 12-26-2006, 03:38 PM

A piece of paper (allowed in most states, but not all) is not the same as an official ceremony with family and friends present. It's not just about the rights. It's also about being treated and seen as normal human beings, not some diseased freaks or something. You don't have to live behind closed doors about having a girlfriend or a wife, so why should a man have to live behind closed doors about having a boyfriend? This whole "I'm okay with gays as long as they act straight in public" **** is ridiculous. Again, they're not asking for "special" rights, just the same rights that you are able to exercise on a daily basis.

Delusional · 12-26-2006, 03:41 PM

Being a homosexual does not make you immoral, Erich. And millions of straight people are stupid enough to be risky with their sex lives and contract HIV/AIDS, as well; this is not limited to the gay community.

FLYBOYJ · 12-26-2006, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delusional

A piece of paper (allowed in most states, but not all) is not the same as an official ceremony with family and friends present.

Again your name fits - who's stopping any gay couple from performing a ceremony??? Leagal or not they could have the "Ceremony." The only thing they are denied is the right to be "married." It has been decided by the courts that is left for a man and woman.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delusional

It's not just about the rights. It's also about being treated and seen as normal human beings, not some diseased freaks or something.

Well maybe if something was done about "flamers" you wouldn't have ignorant fools bashing them!!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delusional

You don't have to live behind closed doors about having a girlfriend or a wife, so why should a man have to live behind closed doors about having a boyfriend?

I don't advertise my sexual content, no one should including gays and by demanding their "rights" that's exactly what they are doing!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delusional

This whole "I'm okay with gays as long as they act straight in public" **** is ridiculous. Again, they're not asking for "special" rights, just the same rights that you are able to exercise on a daily basis.

That's great - i don't need to look at a dude in pumps and a sundress while riding a bus with my toddler, it's that simple!!!

Erich · 12-26-2006, 03:54 PM

young lady what version of the Bible have you been reading ?? It is an abomination unto the Lord

geez pretty plain and simple if you ask me. you are correct a sin is a sin but don't come off telling me they are so clean and mighty, God did not make man to sleep with a man nor a woman to sleep with a woman.

what the hey anyway we screwed our own selves during and after Soddom and Gommorah .......... interesting spots on the planet by the way, totally burned to the ground and vaporized, engulfed with charcoal carbon deposits over 3-6 feet underneath the desert floor. think the Lord God was a bit peeo'd. It's actually un-nerving to be there