The Fall of the United States

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Originally Posted by cls12vg30

whether it's through right-wing fascist or left-wing socialist means, The end result of our current path is the eventual loss of personal freedom, and likely massive poverty after that.

Socialism will not take your personal freedoms, give you mass poverty or end the United States.

You are affraid of somethink you do not need to be afraid of, besides the United States will not become Socialist and even if they did dont worry it is not Communism like most Americans seem to think it is.

[Delusional]

Erich, I do not mean this in any semblence of an offensive way, but I understand very little of what you're trying to say, so I really can't reply to your last post. All I can say is that I did not press you on who you were out of respect for your wishes, and if in some way I did press you on it, I sincerely and deeply apologize.

But you raised a good point, E. There was a contingent of Islamic militants trying to build a training camp not far from where Erich lives. Not alot of people have heard about it, but you sure as hell better be concerned about it.

Inside the scope of this thread, why should we be concerned about it? A few Islamic militants are going to overthrow the U.S.? Or are they going to build up enough support within the U.S. to overthrow it internally? I don't think so, but maybe you can explain to me how exactly a group such as this should be viewed as a threat.

As arrogant as this may sound I think the U.S. will fall when it tries to invade Canada, mostly because I can imagine alot of European countries coming to our aid.

Why in the hell would the U.S. invade Canada?

Socialism will not take your personal freedoms, give you mass poverty or end the United States.

You are affraid of somethink you do not need to be afraid of, besides the United States will not become Socialist and even if they did dont worry it is not Communism like most Americans seem to think it is.

I agree, Adler. And it is exactly because most Americans do not understand the difference between Socialism and Communism that the U.S will likely never be Socialist. Which is fine with me, but I do recognize that Capitalism is not the only economic system that works.

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by Delusional

Why in the hell would the U.S. invade Canada?

Look who wrote it - par for the course!

[pbfoot]

Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ

Look who wrote it - par for the course!

yeah its an embarrassment for for me

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by pbfoot

yeah its an embarrassment for for me

Don't worry pb, we have our share too!

[evangilder]

Originally Posted by Delusional

Inside the scope of this thread, why should we be concerned about it? A few Islamic militants are going to overthrow the U.S.? Or are they going to build up enough support within the U.S. to overthrow it internally? I don't think so, but maybe you can explain to me how exactly a group such as this should be viewed as a threat.

So you think it is perfectly okay for an enemy to have a training camp inside our borders??? Are you really that naive? Once they have one established, more will follow. These are not only training camps but bases of operations for attacks, intelligence and logistics. If that doesn't concern you, then you better wake up. One Islamic radical camp is too many within our borders, period.

[Erich]

sorry Del but you are out of reality. first and foremost I sincerly believe you have never been in my neck of the woods which makes all the difference in the world with what I am stating. Al Quida is alive and well within our borders.

second you seem through your own very words consumed with your little sector of the US of A and seemed to not have been touched .......... yet ............ by these mideast slimes. to make my point clear Oregon is vast and a person can easily be hidden as some of the major growers of pot can attest, so why not hide out in our many box canyons set up camp and look for openings to attack the US from within. We have already felt just a small touch from these small plagues and if anyone thinks we are well protected and it will never happen again then we are all delusional.

I look at it this way, if state "who cares about my little neck of the woods" then God help you and your friends when you get smoked.

[Delusional]

evan and Erich, actually you both make good points. I would consider myself naive, I am young, and no, I haven't been to many places in the world. I am here mostly to learn, and if that means playing the devil's advocate to get more information, well, so be it. Thank you for further explaining your points, and I agree with you now that I understand better. I did not comprehend your ideas at first, but now I do, and that's about all I have to say. I guess my screen name says it all, LOL.

[evangilder]

If I can make a recommendation here, get a copy of Sun Tzu's Art of War and read it. The actual writing is pretty quick, most books also have tons of commentary. But if you read Tzu's words, you will get an idea of the way that strategy in military ops should be. The text was written over 1,000 years ago and the tactics explained still hold true today. Many great military leaders have a dog-eared copy of it.

[Delusional]

Thanks; I think I'll take that recommendation.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Originally Posted by 102first_hussars

As arrogant as this may sound I think the U.S. will fall when it tries to invade Canada, mostly because I can imagine alot of European countries coming to our aid.

Jesus Christ you really are dumb! The US would not invade Canada. My god! Please just stop saying things. We are all getting more dumb by the minute because of you.

[cls12vg30]

[Didn't realize I wasn't logged in, mods feel free to delete the previous Guest post]

Quote:
What exactly is "our current path" that is leading to an end result of the fall of the U.S. and massive poverty?

Well there are a lot of trends, have been for a long time, all different, but all with the same end result. I believe that true prosperity comes from individual liberty, and almost NO government. The only moral limit on an individual's liberty is the point at which they infringe on the liberties of another individual. The ideal government would be just enough government to defend the borders and make sure that no one's rights are violated. This was the original idea behind the founding of the United States, but it was lost rather quickly.

Quote:

What? Why on earth would any of the states secede? What would this revolution be about?

Ask a Texan what they would do if the federal government tried to ban private ownership of firearms. Most that I know would answer, "Secede, then prepare for battle."

Quote:

Socialism will not take your personal freedoms, give you mass poverty or end the United States.

You are affraid of somethink you do not need to be afraid of, besides the United States will not become Socialist and even if they did dont worry it is not Communism like most Americans seem to think it is.

Socialism is just one form. I strongly oppose ALL forms of collectivism, be they Socialism, Communism, Fascism, what have you. A human being's full potential can only be reached under conditions of total personal AND economic freedom. Human beings are not bees. We don't work well or live well in hive situations. Now absolute personal liberty is sometimes called anarchy, but that's not really true, as I stated earlier. True liberty is also true equality. Everyone has the same liberty, so no person is free to kill, injure, steal from, or violate the liberty of any other person. This sounds simple, but is actually very complex, which is why a legal system is needed. And the differences between people and groups of people, combined with human nature itself, mean that there will most likely always be conflict on earth (and eventually off earth), so defense is also necessary on the national level. IMHO these are the only valid functions of government.

Most functions that governments perform these days amount to forced re-distribution of legally-acquired property, which is a nice way to say theft. Usually the intention is good enough, but if you study the effects, all these governments are doing is creating poverty and misery, and turning what should be free citizens into virtual slaves, deceived into thinking they cannot survive without the government's help, (and by the way you better vote for the candidate or party that promises you more free stuff.)

Such is the current state of "free" nations all over the world.

[Delusional]

Ask a Texan what they would do if the federal government tried to ban private ownership of firearms. Most that I know would answer, "Secede, then prepare for battle."

Yeah, well luckily, it's not just Texans that feel that way, which is why the federal government wouldn't ban private ownership of firearms.

True liberty is also true equality. Everyone has the same liberty, so no person is free to kill, injure, steal from, or violate the liberty of any other person. This sounds simple, but is actually very complex, which is why a legal system is needed.

Too bad true equality doesn't exist and never will. And of course this ideal isn't simple. We see its complexity in our everyday lives. Every time someone exercises their First Amendment right of free speech by calling someone a racial slur at work, they violate that other person's right of a harassment-free work environment.

Most functions that governments perform these days amount to forced re-distribution of legally-acquired property, which is a nice way to say theft. Usually the intention is good enough, but if you study the effects, all these governments are doing is creating poverty and misery, and turning what should be free citizens into virtual slaves, deceived into thinking they cannot survive without the government's help, (and by the way you better vote for the candidate or party that promises you more free stuff.)

Everything you say is vague. You have very few facts to back up the general statements and connections you make. What are these effects? How do they create poverty and misery?

A human being's full potential can only be reached under conditions of total personal AND economic freedom.

If you're suggesting that an economic system does not need a government to stabilize it, I will have to strongly disagree with you. Take a look at Reagan's deregulation policies and see how they affected the banking industry in the 1980s. People are just too stupid to effectively run their own economic lives entirely.

[102first_hussars]

Why in the hell would the U.S. invade Canada?

First off Im talking way up the road from right now, and 2nd, why would they? well the most important thing I can think of is Water and areas in our Arctic territory's are going to become major shipping routes, and we have already had problems with trespassing, not just with the states.

[Nonskimmer]

They don't need to invade us to take advantage of any shipping routes. We claim the Arctic as our own, but without the navy or coast guard necessary to adequately patrol those waters, those passages and the surrounding islands are up for grabs anyway. I don't just mean by the Americans either, but by anyone with the means to use them. I mean, what's the total population of Nunavut and the Northwest Territories? About 69,000 people over an area of approximately 1,547,000 sq. kilometres, right? There's a whole lot of unoccupied territory up there, with no one keeping watch. It's virtually squatter's rights. We've already had trouble with the Danes over territory up there. Should we be surprised to find "trespassers" from time to time? Christ, I wouldn't be surprised if there were colonies up there that we knew nothing about.

The Americans are not going to invade us. Hell, we'd invite 'em in anyway.