Global Warming: The New Religion

[pbfoot]

combined federal and provincial tax rates
based on $100k
Alberta 19.23%
BC 27.58%
Sask 30.49%
Manitoba 32.27
Ont 29.26
quebec 34.16
Maritimes around 32%
not quite as bad as it was

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by pbfoot

combined federal and provincial tax rates
based on $100k
Alberta 19.23%
BC 27.58%
Sask 30.49%
Manitoba 32.27
Ont 29.26
quebec 34.16
Maritimes around 32%
not quite as bad as it was

Still a lot higher than the US, but I'll take Alberta!

[renrich]

What most of you non-american citizens don' put into your calculus in judging the US is the difference in demographics between us and you and the amount of money that we spend on the military here. Do you think that the armed might of Canada and or the UK kept the Soviet Union at bay during the cold war?

[Njaco]

I agree with you Flyboy. I'm not an economics major and I really don't understand cause and effect of situations like this. But I continue to see money taken out from my paycheck for programs which I see no return. Banks at least give you a pitiful intrest rate. Washington gives me a hand in my pocket and tells me I should feel good doing it. Hell, I can do that myself!

[pbfoot]

Originally Posted by renrich

What most of you non-american citizens don' put into your calculus in judging the US is the difference in demographics between us and you and the amount of money that we spend on the military here. Do you think that the armed might of Canada and or the UK kept the Soviet Union at bay during the cold war?

Yeah well look at this we have a land mass that is almost twice the size of the US and 10% of the population . When you live in a smaller place like Texas you might not be aware of how big is big .

[renrich]

I am not talking about geography and I realise that Canada has a lot of area not withstanding that a lot of it is sparsely populated. However you have a fairly homogeneous population from the standpoint that most of it is of Caucasion in origin. Our population is one third minority groups with a lot of that group in the lower income brackets. If you look at the demographics of household income, single parent families, illegitimate children, crime rates, etc you have a different picture than in the UK or Canada. If the US had the social programs that you have in your country and in many countries in Europe and if we continued with our military spending at the rate we do now, our taxes would be substantially higher and our economy would be substantally less productive. Someone on this forum stated that UK had the 5th largest economy in the world and the 28th largest military. I don't know how true that is but suspect it is close. I don't know how Canada stacks up that way, perhaps you do. Nevertheless we, in the US, don't see the world the way you perhaps do. We maintain the largest and most proficent military in the world to protect our interests throughout the world and incidently to protect the common interests we have with our allies. We have a longstanding friendship with Britain and her Commonwealth cousins and that friendship has endured. Isn't it nice to have the longest unfortified boundary in the world with the most powerful nation in the world and know you have nothing to fear from them?

[Matt308]

Well said, renrich. Bravo.

[pbfoot]

I cede that some of my comments were ill spoken and apologize those comments should be on another thread if at all
Now back to global warming I believe it is to big an issue to be messed up by partisan politics right wing left wing we must approach this in almost a warlike setting. Putting your head in the sand because of economic reasons is dangerous . I realize that China and India with their burgeoning economies will be hard to contain but we as a more economically advanced societies must take the lead in this fight , particularly my nation which per capita spews more out then the US but I suspect this more is climate related by heating houses in the winters . I am old enough not to be scared by the sky is falling crap and I like to find out both sides of any thing and in this case I believe warming is a serious threat not for me but the kids. Calling some one a liberal because he doesn't view things the same way is Xenophobic

[Harvard]

Hey PB Foot:

You wrote:

"Calling some one a liberal because he doesn't view things the same way is Xenophobic".

That's not why the word liberal was used. We are having a factual debate here, and we used the word liberal based on various facts.

And to sum up what you just said about GW into one sentence:

Do the science first, and do not politicize or legislate.

[Njaco]

Pb, I use the word liberal to describe a mindset that 1.) needs to catagorize people by what they are rather than who they are (read Affrimative action) and 2.) those who believe that the Govenment has all the answers to our pitiful existance.

Case in point; you said ..."global warming I believe it is to big an issue to be messed up..."

Thats the point. Its NOT a big issue if you understand and rationalize all the scientific facts. GW is not reversable. Man plays a small part in the acceraltion of GW. Now instead of informing the populace on what they personally can do to stop contributing to it in a calm and rational way, they shout "fire"! We now need to legislate auto emmissions, air fresheners, cow farts. The public cannot possibly understand the implications, "Oh my, if we don't start now, it'll be 1 billion years instead of 2 billion before the earth becomes a cinder!" They'll pass laws, raise taxes to pay for them and will still insist on using charter jets, limos, stockpile of gas reserves, etc. while we are fed the scraps. You cannot legislate common sense and human nature but they sure as hell try.

And just as an example of how insincere they are. In NJ as in other states they passed the seatbelt law. You must wear a seatbelt for your safety. We're not responsible enough to do it ourselves so they did the fatherly thing and made a law. Because they know better. Last month our Democratic govenor had a serious car crash. Doing ninety mph. In Hospital for a few weeks. Doing rehab. He wasn't wearing a seatbelt.

I'm not very happy with conservatives either at the moment. Nobody in the party wants to take a stand and tell Hillary, Al and Michael to shut up. I'm still a repub because its the philosophy I still agree with which is that each person should do what they can on their own merits without assistance or intrusion from the government along with a strong defense for the country.

But I think some have lost that focus.

[renrich]

Good stuff NJACO!

[Matt308]

Originally Posted by Njaco

But I think some have lost that focus.

Some?? The Republican Party is so drastically mismanaged and populated by corrupt narcissists that I wonder if it can be corrected.

[T4.H]

I didn't want to read this whole mess. I read only a part of it and this was enough.

What I think:

Yes, we have a problem.
Yes, we have global warming, without doubt.
Can we do anything anymore? Not much, it is too late I fear.

Yes, I know, the sun has a cycle, more sunshine, followed by less.
Now, the sunshine-level is rising. But the average temperature is rising much faster in the last decades as it can explained by rising sunshine.
Now it is as warm as realy long time ago...


Are the glaciers disappearing?
Yes.
Is the ice on the himalaya and the Mount Kenya disappearing?
Yes.
Is the north pole cap melting?
Yes.
Do we have higher temperatures in areas without dust and smoke in the air?
Yes!
and so on...

The question is...

What will happen?
About this, we can discuss.

Will the water level rise?
Yes!
How much?
Good Question, perhaps less than expected.
The whole greenland ice starts to melt fast, realy fast. In former warm times, the level of the upper top parts of the greenland ice keep stable. Not at this time.
When the top of the greenland ice reaches lower and warmer air regions...
Nothing will stop the meltdown.
Perhaps MUCH more than expected.

Yes, I know, there are several decades with more hurricanes and followed by decades with less numbers of hurricanes. Now (and for the next 20 Years) we have many! The first one reached europe (spain, two seasons before?).
Will You (I'm from Germany) have more hurricanes?
perhaps not.
Why?
The sea temperature is rising worldwide because of global warming. Also in the atlantic ocean. Good chances to get more hurricanes. Global warming (higher temperatures) will rise the speed of the wind in the upper athmosphere. These higher winds are Hurricane killers!
We have more "El Ninjos" and more worse one than EVER before. EVER!!!!
Last year we have had one. "El Ninjos" are the BEST hurricane killers for the atlantic ocean. How many hurricanes you have had last season?

So, perhaps, you will not have more hurricanes. I think, you will have only more worse ones!

Will we have more rain or less?
Realy good question!
Global warming means higher temperatures means higher temperatures of the sea means higher evaporation...
More rain. But the sunlight is more important than higher temperatures.
Look up? Do you see an aircraft? Do you see any condensation trail? Yes?
Condensation trails are reflecting sunlight. Around 2% of the sunlight is reflected. 1° less on earth. Higher degress in the upper athmosphere! But the temperature on the ground is higher than normal...uppps...Is the global warming more worse everyone expected? (The reflected sunlight from the ground is reflected again from the condensation trails, smoke and dust. Higher temperatures in the lower athmosphere?)

Much less sunlight on ground? Perhaps 10% less evaporatin of water. The same is with the smoke and the dust, we produce. Less sunlight, which reaches the ground.
In clouds, water drops condensate around dust particles. Low numbers of dust particles, low but big and fat drops, will can leave the clouds and can fall down as rain. In china and India they produce big amounts of dust.
More particles, much more, but smaler rain drops, wich can not leave the clouds, more clouds, much less rain.

Do you remember the Sahel drought in the 60'?
Millions of death in africa.
The dust we produce in europe?


Yes, we have global warming.
But what will happen?

[Erich]

base line gents...............nothing anyone on this earth is going to do about it. Remember I said on another page scientists have already proven that the planets spheres are also getting warmer

so we need to get over it and quit blaming everyone for this uncontrolled problem, geez in 15 years if we have that long it may go back into the 1970's when the scientist/weather predictors were claiming we were going into an ice age, the glaciers were growing the NW of the states was getting pounded during the winters with heavy snow-fall. I remember it well and I luved it.

I'll leave this all in God's hands

[pbfoot]

Well the difference between us is that you think most people are intelligent I don't . I believe most people at least in our govt are underworked and overpaid and mostly out of touch with the real world . You mistake me for someone who is in awe of the govt I'm not , my favourite line when dealing with a govt bureaucrat when I'm not getting satisfaction is "May I please speak to someone more important then you" .
Now after saying this the Govt has a responsibility to have some foresight just like any organization and should make decisions for the common good even if it hurts the polls very few govts have the balls for this as it leads to unemployment for the elected . We recently passed a law where by govt folks cannot work for a lobby group or seek govt contracts for 5 years after they left the government. Term limits are needed as well as a device whereby a politician can be recalled .
Aside from your dislike of Gore have you ever seen his documentary if not how can you say you know better . I personally have not seen it but I have been following this story for more then a few years . The fact being this is not a gradual climate change but it is fast , species are dieing out or forced to new areas to survive and this upsets the balance of nature . Yes species have been dieng out since the beginning of time but not at this rate . I've heard bees are not as plentiful or shuuning their traditional areas you might say its not important but how do think plants are pollinated. I feel we are walking on a tightrope and this case prefer to error on the side of caution