Global Warming: The New Religion

[Civettone]

Njaco, I don't think that changes much to the issue at hand. Just because Gore doesn't do what he preaches, doesn't make it less true.

It's just like CEOs of big companies wanting to save money by firing 10,000 people instead of cutting in their own pay check. That stuff has been around as long as man has.
Or a general sending thousands of his own men on a suicide mission knowing he'll not get hurt himself.

Doesn't mean they are taking the wrong decision.
Kris

[Njaco]

No, I understand, but it doesn't make them right decisions either.

But Al Gore is influencing policy makers in this country for something he obviously isn't willing to change himself. One, how can you expect others to do something that you're not and two, how does he have the gall to parade it like he does. He's the biggest spokesman for GW and he doesn't do anything! Kinda makes me wonder if its all legit and just reinforces my opinion.

[renrich]

If you want to see an exercise in hipocrisy, take a look at Gore's house in Tennesee and George Bush's house in Crawford. Gore is one of the biggest frauds around.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

He is a Democrat, what do you expect?

[renrich]

I really don't expect much from Gore. Actually, since he is a democrat, that is enough for me not to give him any credibility.

[Njaco]

I'm still waiting for the day for the democrats to prove me wrong.

[majorwoody10]

the problem i think , is that we seem to have a scientific consensus amongst the real EXPERTS .... that the earth is warming fast and this time WE did it and are still doing it ,. i too would like to agree that it is merely a natural cycle and the solar wind is to blame and co2 is actually just following behind the warming trend ect .alas , what some experts were saying back in 96 or 98 dosent really cut much ice right now ..it is comforting to point out that chrichton or hall (who btw ,arent climate experts ) might support our anti treehugger-enviornmentowhako wishes but it dosent change the overwhelming consensus of actual EXPERTS as of right now ,today ..forget 1995 and 96 ,things have changed since then , this is almost 08 ,lots of ( actually ,most ) anti gw climate people have switched sides ,1998 was TEN years ago....if the expert works for exxon or bp ,can we trust him ? ( even if we really really want him to be right ? ) in 96 ,remember , many experts argued the world wasnt really even warming ..that argument ,at least is over ...
..wether al gore rides arround in the biggest stinkiest 747 jet in america and has a giant mansion where he leaves all the lights on all day when he is away and he arrives at his lectures in a badly tuned ,exhaust spewing t72 battle tank , SO WHAT ? ... none of what gore does personally really matters . also our own observations about local weather also mean nothing ,right? it was hot ,it was cold ..sorry ,not science ....pointing to past errors in science , ie. population bomb ,ice age ,the computer crash of 2000 ,aids going hetro , ect they were wrong then , so therefore they are always wrong? ..this is all small potatoes , lets focus on the big picture as portayed by actual science ie core samples ,guys with beards and phds ,weather baloons ,deep ocean currents ,mountains of raw mind numbing data ....and lets leave aside anecdote ,wives tails ,urban myth and silly partisan politics ..the world is warming fast ( alot faster than it appeared in 96 ) and ..this is the crappy part ,it seems , we and our cool gadgets ,are to blame ...our beloved cars ,and trains and planes and powerplants and trips to hawaii on 747s ..dammit !
this all has nothing to do with wether we are homo , gun snatching , hate america liberals or sensable pariotic conservatives ..its all about logic , one one hand a few sort -of experts who claim gw is all a big joke a silly anti capitalist , anti american hoax ...and on the other side .... virtually ALL of THE ACTUAL climate EXPERTS ...now im not a scientist and i would really much prefer to belive in the former group but im also not so foolish as to allow wishful thinking to overtake my ability to reason ...read the entire thread again ,i think its plain that clivettone has pretty well thrashed all the 17000 scientists and 1995 aguments ,leave aside the anti gore bile and the i wish global warming was a hoax based on my opinion , arguments and we are left with my last question ..if all the climate scientists are yankin our chain and fooling us on purpose ...ah ..why would they do that ? where is the big payoff for fooling us all ,its not like they are all getting a big giant check from us and moving to rio or bora bora under an alias ,right? .. adler says the nay sayers have equal weight and authority with allarmists ..sadly this is simply not true ..google for a couple of hours ,you dont have to be a scientist but you do have to set aside your politics and personal bias ( well try , anyway ) ...this is a thing where clear thinking and logic must come first ...after all the whole world ( as we now know it) is at stake and its the only dang world we have... btw ..i want al gore and kris to be wrong ...please help me ...

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Forgive me if I insult you with this but can you please write your posts with a bit of structure. Dont take me wrong I am not the greatest person when it comes to grammar and what not but your posts are very hard to follow.

[majorwoody10]

sry adler , i will strive to improve ...

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

No worries it will just make it easier for people to follow you.

[Njaco]

we seem to have a scientific consensus amongst the real EXPERTS

Major, who are these experts?
What are their credentials?
What are their motivations?

if the expert works for exxon or bp ,can we trust him ?

if all the climate scientists are yankin our chain and fooling us on purpose ...ah ..why would they do that ?

If the expert relies on funding from the government, can we trust HIM? If your little project recieves funding from government sources, are you going to report "Nah, everythings ok!" Don't think so.

Is there an expert that is autonomous, objective, bereft of monetary support either from special intrests or the government, that we can rely upon?

One of the first edicts of science is "for every action there is an opposite and equal reaction" From what I've read and heard there are just as many "scientists" on both sides of the fence. And scientists are only human and make mistakes. I keep hearing on this thread how these experts are held up high, no questions asked and end of story!

So the scientist who lied in South Korea was correct? Nobel lauerate Dr. Watson was just joking?

Again who are these experts that so much blind faith is placed?

[majorwoody10]

ten years ago you might say they were kinda balanced .things seemed to have changed of late ..the credentials have piled up on the fossil fuel co2 side in overwhelming numbers ..sadly the credentials on the naysayers side are skinny indeed . i would say that climate scientists have more credibilty than geologists or historians or medical doctors who write good novels ...amongst climate guys the debate ist kaput ,over ,finished ..look again at this issue .it is worth a little study..

[tpikdave]

Almost anyone with media support can become an expert. For example, Barbara Streisand is an expert on politics and global peace. There are many many Hollywood and other famous types who use their celebrity to push an agenda. The media will always lend a hand to the famous with a "cause".

The weakness of man to use almost anything (including controversial causes) to move himself up a notch or two on his own ladder of popularity can be found in the scientific community also.

I favor proof, solid incontrovertible truth before I get on board that train.

[Civettone]

Personally I don't follow the logic of every scientist or journalist is biased.

But I can understand the logic of it. And it is indeed perfectly possible that many scientists are driven by the unscientific motives.

However, we can say that scientists from both sides can be like this. So does that mean we cannot trust a single scientist?

I believe not. I believe in science. And when the vast majority of scientists claim one thing, I believe it. There will always be scientists who claim the opposite. Just check this out: F E S - flat earth society
Kris

[majorwoody10]

...streisand is an expert at singing ,nobody anywhere claims shes an expert at global peace ...there are experts in the sciences and it is silly to pretend otherwise ., dave .if you were a british buyer for wildcats in 1940 , would you want to talk to the experts from grumman aircraft or a team of experts from the krupp ironworks in berlin , or mabey a team from fiat automobiles in milan ...after all their all highly trained experts in their own feilds and all of them want your business ..of course the grumman guys speak english and thats a help....hmmmm, a hard call ...all these experts are confusing , better call the home office in london ..