Global Warming: The New Religion

[Danielmellbin]

oh and the so called global cooling - the article mentioned the equator getting warmer aswell - plus again-gain-gain. Global warming is a misleading term - What happened at the time might have been the begining of global climate change - or more likely just a fluctuation at that time. However if you look at NASA readings its pretty clear that the changes are much more extreme this time around...

Oh - and I never claimed "all scientists" (which would be ridicoulous as they never agree on anything).

[Njaco]

No, I didn't mean you - it was someone else from awhile ago.

So we disagree - thats fine. I just don't want politicians taking money out of my pockets for what I believe is voodoo science.

and how do we stop it: Stop driving as much cars, stop flying as much, stop wrapping everything in plastic, stop eating so much meat etc etc...

Now I ask you, is the 78 year-old grandmother living on her Social Security in her rented mobile home more of a danger than Al Gore and his 3 homes?

They want me to change my light bulbs but are they cracking down on flying? Those that can afford it or thats paid for by the citizens of the US? Or how about cracking down on Hollywood and Bollywood with their big explosion blockbusters?

When I see Ted Kennedy and Jon Corzine or Bill Gates or Oprah making these concessions, then I'll consider it.

stop eating so much meat

Please explain this because, in my job this has a whole different meaning - but then again maybe not.

(which would be ridicoulous as they never agree on anything).

So how can you place so much faith in them?

[Danielmellbin]

Originally Posted by Njaco

So how can you place so much faith in them?

Heh - I mean there is never consesus on any issue - cuz there will always be a couple of nuts in the back of the room screaming the opposite of everyone else (just hope they are right this time - this being one of the few times i wouldn't enjoy saying "I told you so").

As for political leaders/celebreties leading the way by example - why? First of all they have never done it with anything. And second of all it makes no sense: I mean: I would like to see a soldier going "I wont go until O'Reilly and Rumsfeld has been in action..." - just like your example it would be really cool if they did but we both know the world doesn't work that way.

Is the 78 year old just as big a "threat" - no - why would she be? Will it help if she changes her light bulb? yes. Will she save money in doing it? yes. Will it hurt her to do it? no. Pleeeeease stop mentioning Al Gore!

stop eating meat: as in stop eating the bloody red stuff that says moo before its butchered (not as in give it up - just make it more of a sunday thing).

[renrich]

Hmmmm, Quit eating meat? If we quit then there will be no need for cattle except dairy products, so think of all the little calves that don't get born. FCN, pure propaganda? How do you know that? Could that just be an opinion? Interesting that polls show it to be the most balanced and objective news source.

[Njaco]

Heh - I mean there is never consesus on any issue -

So lets focus on the real important things.

Its called life. It has so many intangables that we don't know whats going to happen next.

An asteroid could hit the earth and end it all. How come theres no Meteor Defense System?

The Sun could supernova or whatever and end it all. How come there isn't an Earth Relocation Program?

Volcanoes, earthquakes, Tsunamis, on and on and on.....

There are too many things that can happen. But this issue is one that the government can play with. That 78 yr old grandma may not be a danger but....

Can she pay for solar panels?
Can she pay for a grass guzzler?
Can she pay for any of these so-called green initatives that will be imposed on us? Not on a fixed income. She doesn't have the resources that Kennedy, Gates and -god-forbid - Gore have. Its no sweat off their backs. But its another nail in her coffin.

I'm more concerned with starving and dying for myself and my ancestors from government imposed voodoo science laws than I am about GW.

I'm guessing the meat comment is...

1. More corn for the tank
or
2. A Vegan in sheep's clothing.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Originally Posted by Danielmellbin

stop eating meat: as in stop eating the bloody red stuff that says moo before its butchered (not as in give it up - just make it more of a sunday thing).

Why would I want to do that?

I love red meat, I love pork, I love fish, I love seafood, I love chicken, I love deer, I love duck, I love boar, I love meat...

And this is the proper way to eat meat, rare and bloody!



If you want to eat grass, be my guest!

Originally Posted by Danielmellbin

All the friends I have in the US (admitedly only 4) think that Fox is a scandal - and three of them are conservatives(!)

What News agency is not?

They all promote their own political agenda. The same lefties that talk **** about Fox, dont even realize that their lefty news agency is just as full of ****.

Everyone is blind to what they do not want to see or understand.

[renrich]

Chris, hear hear, way to go! Nothing like a good piece of meat cooked rare. Besides, I like to see those fresh dropped spring calves playing in the meadows here in Colorado.

[Danielmellbin]

mmmm.... meeeat - I love it too . Ren - I specifically said "not as in give it up" - just less. Heck i just bought 2 kilo's of yumyum stakes on sale today. Erm.. couldn't care less about the calves not being born.

Adler - why you would want to do it? Two reasons:
One: There is one billion chinese people getting richer fast. The "little" food market crisis we have just had is just the begining if the worlds people continue getting richer. Those who used to eat rice and a little meat now eat alot of meat and a little rice - just like us - there simply isn't enough space on the planet to supply cattle for everybody on a daily basis.
Two: Cows/pigs Farting - Co2 again.

"Everyone is blind to what they do not want to see or understand" - What are you refering to? News channels? Please refresh my memory with some lies from the "leftist" media then..

Njaco -
All the things you mention is stuff we cannot change - and so we accept it. And the scare of ol' lady being financially raped because she has to build a solarpanel - is just unrealistic. Two things are wrong with that example. Firstly: who says it has to be more expensive?
Secondly: Again we are just postponing the inevitable and at the same imperiling every single old lady in whole world.
(thirdly: the people who will have to make the sacrifices are not the poor people on welfare and the likes... its just an old scare tactic of the right)

Ren -
Fox news channel being the most balanced - I cannot beleive im having this discussion. The most obvious truths are always the hardest to prove. An example would be Iraq and Afghanistan - I've had many friends in both places and my brother has just came home from Afghanistan. From what they tell me I can see that generally the media is doing a good job of telling the truth - as apposed to fox (they "found" WMD's, There was a connection between 9/11 and Saddam, Everything is getting better and so on, withholding the facts about HOW peace is created some places in those countries, etc etc).
As far as I know they didn't say the lies directly but simply hinted at it so many times that people who dont see any other news gets the wrong idea.


Who where asked in those polls on the news? Furthermore - polls on news quality doesn't make any sense. - how can people in general grade the truthfullness of news since they do not know the truth? Are they not simply saying which news they want too hear?

However - In all fairness: god I'm glad we dont only have privately run newsorgs "over here".

[Danielmellbin]

oh - just saw this on another thread

YouTube - Obama campaign rep STUMPED on legislative accomplishments

Would fox ever run something like this against a republican politician?

[pbfoot]

Just found this out but Methane is not really a problem since it degrades quickly 7 years and for the nay sayers about global warming you can now hoist your flag on the fact the MT Shasta Glacier is growing mind you 1000's are shrinking

[Njaco]

Firstly: who says it has to be more expensive?

Well, do you have any facts that it isn't expensive? If its cheap how come I'm not seeing solar panels on homes all over? Twisty light bulbs cost the same as regular? In addition to the primary cost of Green products there is the hidden impact that will cost us. Organic ethanol will put a dent in the crop market and prices will be raised to offset that. Its happening with corn crops at the moment. Thats not to mention the whole host of new laws that lawmakers will pass as Green Laws - No farting between the hours of 6pm and 5am. Things like this will happen. A major cultural change for going Green will have a cost and the poor and faux middle-class will carry the burden.

the people who will have to make the sacrifices are not the poor people on welfare and the likes... its just an old scare tactic of the right

Scare tactic? Do the poor have the means to "Go Green"? Since most are subsidized by government programs like Welfare and WIC you don't think that there will be little attachments to their programs. Something like..."We've reduced your Food Stamps because you have a high carbon footprint." It will come, especially if the Democrats get into office. They will be the first hit. Why do you think the developing poor countries of the world recently balked at GW. They know they would shoulder the burden while the richest countries pat themselves on the back at how well the are doing.

[JugBR]

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

Why would I want to do that?

I love red meat, I love pork, I love fish, I love seafood, I love chicken, I love deer, I love duck, I love boar, I love meat...

And this is the proper way to eat meat, rare and bloody!

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

If you want to eat grass, be my guest!

Ich dachte, das Gras war für das Rauchen ????

maybe foi-gras...

[Danielmellbin]

Originally Posted by Njaco

Well, do you have any facts that it isn't expensive? If its cheap how come I'm not seeing solar panels on homes all over? Twisty light bulbs cost the same as regular? In addition to the primary cost of Green products there is the hidden impact that will cost us. Organic ethanol will put a dent in the crop market and prices will be raised to offset that. Its happening with corn crops at the moment. Thats not to mention the whole host of new laws that lawmakers will pass as Green Laws - No farting between the hours of 6pm and 5am. Things like this will happen. A major cultural change for going Green will have a cost and the poor and faux middle-class will carry the burden.


Scare tactic? Do the poor have the means to "Go Green"? Since most are subsidized by government programs like Welfare and WIC you don't think that there will be little attachments to their programs. Something like..."We've reduced your Food Stamps because you have a high carbon footprint." It will come, especially if the Democrats get into office. They will be the first hit. Why do you think the developing poor countries of the world recently balked at GW. They know they would shoulder the burden while the richest countries pat themselves on the back at how well the are doing.

Ok - what I got so far on convertion to "greener" energy:

1. You will be forced to construct your own solarpanels

2. Your taxes will be raised to insane amounts

3. Public welfare will cease/decline

4. You will be forced to stop farting by the new commy government

5. Third world nations will overtake us because they wont be converting

6. If everything is so good about green energy we would already be converting now.
-----------
1. - No you wont - the notion is pretty far out there. Why would you and who would accept it? Furthermore - right now we are already "forced" to buy stuff. - difference is that we are used to it. i.e. gas/heating etc.

2. So what will happen when the oil runs out anyway in some odd 50-100 years? Taxes will probably increase - but nations where convertion is in "full swing" havn't seen any increase in taxes (atleast not substantial).

3. Weird point since this is a declared goal of most rightwingers. But no - same as in 2.) Nothing is free in the world and oil is dissapearing like it or not

4. lol - a joke I take it

5. Nope - first of they are still miles behind the west - and even if a convertion would cause a temporary recession - their economy is linked to ours and they will still be affected by every bomb that goes of in the middleeast and be facing the fact that soon there wont be any oil left.

6. Nope - people with too much money and influence is blocking the cenvertion by creating all the myths of doomsday. Facts are that the economy of countries converting is booming for the most part.

On another note - hasn't anybody noticed how the economy is doing after 7 years of republican rule? Building up such a huge debt IS raising taxes - just indirectly.

Oh - and yea the light bulbs cost the same - BUT they use less energy and are longer lasting = cheaper!

However we agree on grain alcohol - bad idea - both because of the food situation you mention and becuase the process of making it emits enough gasses to make it useless if its made to reduce emissions.

[Njaco]

Its late and I just got back from shopping so I'm beat. Not wont to really respond properly but....

Oh - and yea the light bulbs cost the same

No, they don't.

Just went shopping and decided to try the twisty, mercury filled energy efficent "Green" bulbs. Also picked up some regular.

4pack 40w regular bulbs = $2.69
2 pack 40w Civilization savers = $6.99

I'd scan my bill if I could just to show you.

[Danielmellbin]

Originally Posted by Njaco

Its late and I just got back from shopping so I'm beat. Not wont to really respond properly but....



No, they don't.

Just went shopping and decided to try the twisty, mercury filled energy efficent "Green" bulbs. Also picked up some regular.

4pack 40w regular bulbs = $2.69
2 pack 40w Civilization savers = $6.99

I'd scan my bill if I could just to show you.

Nah - I believe you ofcourse - but over here they cost the same now (used to be more expensive in the old days) - but over time you will still save money though. The price we pay for a lightbulb is only a tiny fraction of money we use to make it glow.