Global Warming: The New Religion

[<simon>]

"there have been times when there was 3 times as much CO2 in our atmosphere as there is now"

hmmmmmm...... interesting.... not quite correct though..

There are yearly "spikes" of CO2, caused when trees all over the world drop their leaves and they rot and produce CO2 etc etc. But there has never been as much CO2 in our atmosphere as there is now.

Scientists have been drilling km's down into the ice of Antarctica, dating back millions and millions of years. Apparently there are more traces of CO2 in the top 20m of ice than there is anywhere else.

I respect everyone's views about this topic, but i can't help finding myself believeing this whole "global warming" thing. I live in an area subjected to terrible bushfires in summer and massive floods whenever we have heaps of rain.
Now these top scientists are saying we are going to have far worse and more frequent bushfires, floods, earthquakes, hurricanes etc etc as a direct result of global warming.
Even if humans are only contributing 20% to this whole thing, surely it must be worth trying to cut back on that 20%!!!

It is also worth considering the environment we're living in.
Take Bejing for example, where the Olympics are due to be held in August. We've all seen pictures of that city hidden in a cloud of smog/haze. Surely that isn't a healthy environment to be in??!!

Anyway, those are my views

Cheers
Simon

[renrich]

More earthquakes as a result of GW? That is a new one on me. With a degree in geology, I find that one a little hard to swallow. Simon, if you think the weather we are having now is bad, you should have been around in the 1930s, during the "Dust Bowl." Read about it sometime.

[Njaco]

This was released this week. As I saw last year, apparently Mother Nature has the ability to counter-act any negative. And the other articles, with some key passages, also prove, the scientists can't agree either. And on this "fact" the governments at Kyoto are going to bill us for this. Daniel that is what has me in a bind.

I will not disagree that there is GW but I will agrue feverently that its man's fault.

I will do my part to conserve and adapt but don't threaten me with it.

I will begrudgingly pay for other failed government programs that may be beneficial but not something that reads like a sci-fi novel.

BBC NEWS | Science/Nature | Air trends 'amplifying' warming
"Research presented at a major European science meeting adds to other evidence that cleaner air is letting more solar energy through to the Earth's surface. Other studies show that increased water vapour in the atmosphere is reinforcing the impact of man-made greenhouse gas emissions."

BBC NEWS | Science/Nature | Why the Sun seems to be 'dimming'
"But it now appears the warming from greenhouse gases has been offset by a strong cooling effect from dimming - in effect two of our pollutants have been cancelling each other out."

&lsquo;Blame cosmic rays not CO2 for warming up the planet&rsquo; - Times Online
"Dr Svensmark suggests that the Sun, at a historically high level of activity, is deflecting many of the cosmic rays away from Earth and thus reducing the cloud cover. Clouds reflect the Sun’s rays back into space and are considered to have an important cooling effect. However, if during periods of high activity the Sun’s magnetic field pushes a greater proportion of cosmic rays away from the Earth, fewer clouds will form."

Study Finds Thicker Storm Clouds Over Warmer Tropical Waters, Affect Climate
"Scientists agree that the atmospheric concentration of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere will double compared to pre-Industrial Revolution levels within the next few decades, but there is still widespread debate over how great an effect this influx of gases will have on the world's climate. Although doubling the concentration of greenhouse gases like carbon dioxide would by itself raise Earth's temperature, the change in atmospheric composition also may trigger other effects that could amplify or diminish this temperature change."

This is only part of what was presented that I saw but it made sense. And I have yet to read or see or hear any of these studies reported by the media. The closest was that docu I saw on PBS (of all stations).

The point being its an inexact science. How anybody can make policy changes based on this is baffling.

[Njaco]

Stupid computer double-posting! matt is gonna kill me!

[Danielmellbin]

Originally Posted by Njaco

How anybody can make policy changes based on this is baffling.

This is exactly the point - Worst case scenario if we do not alter our ways is opening the likelyhood of some of the less atractive events in the bible - while worst case scenario if we do act is generally speaking just inconveniencies.

Think I've pretty much exhausted my points and opinions on this matter for now - hope ya'll change your minds at some point

-Daniel

[<simon>]

Originally Posted by renrich

More earthquakes as a result of GW? That is a new one on me. With a degree in geology, I find that one a little hard to swallow. Simon, if you think the weather we are having now is bad, you should have been around in the 1930s, during the "Dust Bowl." Read about it sometime.

Sorry renrich, a bit overboard i know
First thing that popped into my head

[Aussie1001]

Firstly let me point out that if everyone started concentrating their efforts on mass producing solar panels they would become much cheaper. Fact of life if you make small amounts using highly specialised equiptment it will cost heaps, however simplify it and mass produce it from factories it will become cheaper, you only have to look at historical examples: cars, planes even the humble diswasher, twenty years no one except the filthy rich had them, now nearly every household has one, its a matter of refining and mass producing.

Secondly i will never give up meat, i live on a beef farm for god's sake. And adler i like my meat a bit more brown than that, thats to raw for me !!!

[<simon>]

YESSSS!!!

Wish YOU were the PM Aussie!!!!

Exactly my thoughts!!

We've got 9 solar panels on our house and our last energy bill was...........
$5.15!!!

That was over winter so in summer we'll probably produce more than we use, so the power company Origin may PAY US!!!
If only more people knew that.
The panels were expensive, $10,000 after the Government rebate, but if only we could mass produce like you say, the world would be saved!

Oh, and theres a snowflakes chance in hell that i'm gunna give up meat!

[tpikdave]

I have thought a lot about solar panels, but I live on the Oregon coast. Our particular location can go without sunshine for almost an entire summer, and forget winter! There is nothing like a winter on this part of the coast. 50mph to 100mph winds with rain and/or hail are common and can last for weeks.

So I am hesitant to adopt solar. Maybe a wind turbine? but then there are the neighbors to consider

[<simon>]

Hmmmm in your case i spose solar panels would be somewhat 'useless'

A friend of ours in the US is part of a team making new "vertical wind turbines". These are supposed to be incredibly small and produce more power than the average household turbine.
Heres the link if you want to check them out.

Helix Wind

[Danielmellbin]

Not enough sun here either - well too irregular anyway. But these work just fine

[magnocain]

Although California has a huge amount of fires going on, at least my area is COOLER than normal. It is 86*F outside. Normal is more like 106*F.

[hunter0f2]

Thats because the world has been cooling for the past 10 years!!!

[Njaco]

PotomacStewards.com - Tilting At Windmills
"Friends of Beautiful Pendleton County successfully intervened at the Public Service Commission against US Wind Force’s Liberty Gap project in Pendleton County. The developer proposed 50 turbines on Jack Mountain, running from the state line north for approximately 6 miles in the county."

www.windaction.org | Windmill Debate: what are future effects?
"Our group opposes the construction of wind turbines on the ridgetop of Laurel Mountain or any other mountain because, on a regional scale, the clear-cutting of large ridgetop areas for wind turbine construction reduces our groundwater recharge," Art Dodds said."

E-Team | Washington Governor Forces Wind Farm Over Local Objections
"Kittitas County commissioners had rejected the proposed wind farm, noting local opposition to the 410-foot wind turbines that are expected to destroy scenic views, kill birds and bats, and create loud, reverberating noise in addition to generating a relatively small amount of electric power."

Among numerous other similiar stories.
This ain't happening either.

[Aussie1001]

well we want you to stop producing Co2 emissions but you can't ruin the scenery or kill a few bats.... what a load of crap