Global Warming: The New Religion

[JugBR]

Originally Posted by pbfoot

Its not realistic for a guy from Brazil to knock the US on global warming as your country is cutting down the rainforest at ever increasing rates .Not that my country is any more innocent but you should look in the mirror first

and i dont deny that, this topic its not about "whos better than who", but to talk about the global warming, and i took for example usa by obvious reasons, since they are the most industrialized country, so its quite hard for them to change their industry for another kind of fuel.

also, i cand talk about my country´s cutting down the rainforrest, just make a topic on taht if you really cares and im glad if you do so. i care about that and i believe its just another picture that shows how politicians are sometimes very incompetent and corrupt, because the country dont benefits with the killing of rainforrest, but some lobbies, some politicians really get money selling that lands for farmers.

the guilty of brazil is for their weak and corrupt politician leadership that think is fine burn some trees to create some cows.

i wish to talk more about that situation, and sure i will. but for now, i tell you i know how bad is the situation of rainforrest and not proud of that. but theres people here fighting against that. we can sustain ourselves with food, killing the hungry of poors and social inequalities, ethanoland also sell for other countries the surplus without touch any tree of rainforrest. its just a matter of inteligence and good leadership, what past governments hadnt.

canada, brazil, usa, etc... we are all responsibles for the health of earth. usa is not more guilty than brazil, os brazil is not more guilty than usa, usa have a bigger industry than brazil and brazil have a bigger natural resources than usa. diferent issues, same goal.

i look in the mirror pb, i see problems and also solutions. its just the matter of the right leadership we have the solutions here... and the problems !

[Old Wizard]

Originally Posted by renrich

The simple answer to the question about socialism versus whatever you want to call our form of government is that the less socialism the more freedom and the more dynamic the economy is. The US has the most dynamic economy in the world and also the largest. In the meantime we are also supporting the largest and most effective military in the world. Chris, in the countries you mentioned, what would their budgets and or tax code look like if they continued to spend on social programs but spent as much on defense as we do. This takes place in spite of the US becoming more socialistic every year. I have been right here for the last seven years enjoying not another attack by terrorists and enjoying 52 months of GDP growth which was a record along with low inflation rates. However I don't give a lot of credit to the Bush administration for the economy but rather it is our system, which the liberals will continue to nibble at and dismantle. If one thinks the economy is in shambles that person has not been around long. Go back and look at the housing sector, banking and S&L situation in the 80s and then you will know real problems. For your information, the "recession" we are in is still not a recession. If you blame high oil and gasoline prices on the Bush Admin. we have nothing left to discuss.

Your gov't just revised the formula for calculating inflation, growth of the economy and unemployment. It manages to lower the numbers for inflation and unemployment and increase the numbers for growth. Our gov't did the same thing more than twenty years ago.

[JugBR]

Originally Posted by javlin

I will agree with you Jug the US does rely on oil an so does everybody ELSE!But let's take it here in the US the great idea of solar energy and how it is being helped by nano-technolgy?We have a solar field NV/OK?that is ready to be tested 2sq/miles who opposes,the enviros go figure,some bird's habitat needs to be looked at,backs it up 2 yrs min.The enviro's would like us to live in the stone age as long as it does not involve them,trust me I had a brother-in-law like that and I have not talked to in yrs. after I called him a fatalist in "wishing the world should be devoid of humans" and he does scientific researcher.His view as you can tel man does more harm than good and anyone who really feels that way should just go and off themselves now.Yea I will take living a good life were we rule.

we cant find another so eficient way to get energy than oil and natural gas. but would be better if we find. ethanol and biodiesel are more close to reality, but not the full solution. solar plants can provide some energy, but not the most part.

and even if we find a better fuel and cheaper than oil, more eficient and cheaper, theres the problems related of the unemployment that would cause this hypotetical change.

----------------------------------------------------------

pbfoot:

i didnt talk about deforestation of pantanal and atlantic forrest, the deforrestation and pollution of coal factories in parana state, the thermal inversion phenomenum we have in são paulo, the issues about illegal fishing boats. the problems of hidroeletric powerplants interfering with the spawning of fish, the hunt of wild birds to sell as mascots, the transposition of são francisco river, the exploitation of indians, etc etc etc...

rain forrest deforrestation is only one of the problems we have. im not proud, but i dont deny. the reality really hurts, but the future brings hope.

[Oreo]

I'm jumping into this late, but speaking on the subject of global warming, I will state my beliefs, which I don't expect anyone to particularly agree with. i only state them for the record and hopefully so people will think about it.

What i believe is the Biblical record. Sometime between 6,000 and 8,000 years ago, God created the earth, and space, and all the stars and galaxies, and all the matter in the universe, from nothing. First he created matter and energy, then in the course of a seven day week, he used the matter and energy to make light, a planet, which was and is the Earth, water, the sun, moon, and all the stars and galaxies, then plants, then fish, water creatures, and birds, then land animals, and finally the first two humans.

The first two humans lived in a paradise world. To make a long story short, they broke the only basic rule God gave them, and sin entered into the world. With sin came a curse: No longer would mankind be able to just wander around and pick fruit off the trees. Now, in order to survive, man had to work. All humans born as offspring to the original two were born with a nature to sin. Sin multiplied on the earth.

It got to the point that God decided to start over with mankind. He chose Noah, the one man on earth at the time who really made a point of obeying God, and he had him build a large ship to use to preserve his family and a selection of animals. At this point there had been no rain on the earth. Atmospheric conditions at the time watered the ground through dew, and possibly through a multitude of springs from vast underground cisterns.

The rain came and flooded the earth, along with water that came up from the vast underground cisterns. This is not as difficult as it may seem, for there were no tall mountain ranges at the time, for there had been little seismic activity up until then.

When the giant wooden barn of a ship came to rest on a hill several weeks later, and the flood waters receded, probably into holes in the ocean floor opened up by new seismic activity, the atmosphere was totally different. No longer was there a massive protective blanket of water vapor enveloping the globe making temperatures very uniform throughout (think of the tropical plants found in fossils at the poles).

Also, having the entire globe flooded with water for several weeks reduced the amount of contact light could have with land. Water absorbs light and changes it into heat at a much lower rate than dry land does. therefore, for a period of several weeks (actually some 2-3 months), the sun had less effect at warming the earth. Some of the water was trapped on top of continents, such as in what we now call the "Great Basin" of the United States, and possibly other locations around the world. Relatively quickly, an ice age ensued, because the temperature had dropped. This may have taken several hundred years to develop; anyway we know animals such as the wooly mammoth had become very numerous by that time, after being released from the ark.

The Ice Age may also have been brought on by a sudden change in the sun.

Either way, something caused the earth to cool instantly. Ice in the Great Basin, for instance, expanded and knocked two escape hatches out at once, one in what is now the Colorado river, and the other in what is now the Columbia river. Gradually, the sun warmed the earth up, and as the ice began to melt, one spring, both ice dams let go at once. Most of the water drained out through the Colorado river, making in one year's time what we now know as the Grand Canyon. The Columbia Gorge was also opened up, allowing some of the water to drain out through the Cascade Mountains to the Pacific Ocean.

The earth's climate began to stabilize, more or less, after that. Irregularities in sunspots, etc, caused various cycles to bring average temperatures up and down. The snow caps and glaciers built up during the ice age began to recede, and have been receding ever since. Some years, more snow and ice is added to them than melts off. Other years more melts off than is added. Overall, however, the long term trend has been for more to melt off than has been added.

We should not be alarmed. There is little to nothing we can do about it. The earth is warming, and it has been, ever since the ice age. Ultimately, God is in control.

The Bible also predicts that in the future, God will judge the earth and the wicked people of the earth. One of the ways the prophecy predicts for God to punish mankind on the earth will be through increased temperatures. Notice this is God doing it to man, not man doing it to God.

There is nothing we can do to stop it. Quit complaining. Move to Alaska, and enjoy the tropics. Or realize that a short new trend could be a cooler spell for the next hundred years. How can we know? We can't even predict accurate weather three days in advance.

[Danielmellbin]

Originally Posted by Oreo

I'm jumping into this late, but speaking on the subject of global warming, I will state my beliefs, which I don't expect anyone to particularly agree with. i only state them for the record and hopefully so people will think about it.

What i believe is the Biblical record. Sometime between 6,000 and 8,000 years ago, God created the earth, and space, and all the stars and galaxies, and all the matter in the universe, from nothing. First he created matter and energy, then in the course of a seven day week, he used the matter and energy to make light, a planet, which was and is the Earth, water, the sun, moon, and all the stars and galaxies, then plants, then fish, water creatures, and birds, then land animals, and finally the first two humans.

The first two humans lived in a paradise world. To make a long story short, they broke the only basic rule God gave them, and sin entered into the world. With sin came a curse: No longer would mankind be able to just wander around and pick fruit off the trees. Now, in order to survive, man had to work. All humans born as offspring to the original two were born with a nature to sin. Sin multiplied on the earth.

It got to the point that God decided to start over with mankind. He chose Noah, the one man on earth at the time who really made a point of obeying God, and he had him build a large ship to use to preserve his family and a selection of animals. At this point there had been no rain on the earth. Atmospheric conditions at the time watered the ground through dew, and possibly through a multitude of springs from vast underground cisterns.

The rain came and flooded the earth, along with water that came up from the vast underground cisterns. This is not as difficult as it may seem, for there were no tall mountain ranges at the time, for there had been little seismic activity up until then.

When the giant wooden barn of a ship came to rest on a hill several weeks later, and the flood waters receded, probably into holes in the ocean floor opened up by new seismic activity, the atmosphere was totally different. No longer was there a massive protective blanket of water vapor enveloping the globe making temperatures very uniform throughout (think of the tropical plants found in fossils at the poles).

Also, having the entire globe flooded with water for several weeks reduced the amount of contact light could have with land. Water absorbs light and changes it into heat at a much lower rate than dry land does. therefore, for a period of several weeks (actually some 2-3 months), the sun had less effect at warming the earth. Some of the water was trapped on top of continents, such as in what we now call the "Great Basin" of the United States, and possibly other locations around the world. Relatively quickly, an ice age ensued, because the temperature had dropped. This may have taken several hundred years to develop; anyway we know animals such as the wooly mammoth had become very numerous by that time, after being released from the ark.

The Ice Age may also have been brought on by a sudden change in the sun.

Either way, something caused the earth to cool instantly. Ice in the Great Basin, for instance, expanded and knocked two escape hatches out at once, one in what is now the Colorado river, and the other in what is now the Columbia river. Gradually, the sun warmed the earth up, and as the ice began to melt, one spring, both ice dams let go at once. Most of the water drained out through the Colorado river, making in one year's time what we now know as the Grand Canyon. The Columbia Gorge was also opened up, allowing some of the water to drain out through the Cascade Mountains to the Pacific Ocean.

The earth's climate began to stabilize, more or less, after that. Irregularities in sunspots, etc, caused various cycles to bring average temperatures up and down. The snow caps and glaciers built up during the ice age began to recede, and have been receding ever since. Some years, more snow and ice is added to them than melts off. Other years more melts off than is added. Overall, however, the long term trend has been for more to melt off than has been added.

We should not be alarmed. There is little to nothing we can do about it. The earth is warming, and it has been, ever since the ice age. Ultimately, God is in control.

The Bible also predicts that in the future, God will judge the earth and the wicked people of the earth. One of the ways the prophecy predicts for God to punish mankind on the earth will be through increased temperatures. Notice this is God doing it to man, not man doing it to God.

There is nothing we can do to stop it. Quit complaining. Move to Alaska, and enjoy the tropics. Or realize that a short new trend could be a cooler spell for the next hundred years. How can we know? We can't even predict accurate weather three days in advance.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Originally Posted by pbfoot

Its not realistic for a guy from Brazil to knock the US on global warming as your country is cutting down the rainforest at ever increasing rates .Not that my country is any more innocent but you should look in the mirror first

No its just in fashion nowadays to blame the United States for everything that is wrong in the world. Everyone forgets the good things real quick (almost as soon as they are over), and always points the fingers.

I really can't wait fo the day for the United States to give a big **** You to everyone else. Let a natural disaster hit South America (no I do not really wish for this to happen to anyone), and then let them help themselves. Not a dime from the United States or a plane with food or money or anything. Just sit back and watch...

And that goes for everywhere else in the world.

I am ****ing tired of it. Instead of pointing fingers at the US, people should police their own countries first and then worry about others.

[Aussie1001]

We are not talking about biblicial plagues or any other deity induced disasters we are talking about a world that keeps pumping CFC's and Co2 into the atmosphere.

[Njaco]

So the question is not that man created Global Warming but how much, if any, has he added to the present one.

Bingo!!

Sorry to say Oreo, but without "scientific" fact on what you propose, that just didn't happen. Don't you know about the Big Bang...or is it Cyclic? or.....(looking for phone number of Stephen Hawking).

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Originally Posted by Aussie1001

We are not talking about biblicial plagues or any other deity induced disasters we are talking about a world that keeps pumping CFC's and Co2 into the atmosphere.

Well I can see my post went right over your head....

Go back and read it.

[Danielmellbin]

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

No its just in fashion nowadays to blame the United States for everything that is wrong in the world. Everyone forgets the good things real quick (almost as soon as they are over), and always points the fingers.

I really can't wait fo the day for the United States to give a big **** You to everyone else. Let a natural disaster hit South America (no I do not really wish for this to happen to anyone), and then let them help themselves. Not a dime from the United States or a plane with food or money or anything. Just sit back and watch...

And that goes for everywhere else in the world.

I am ****ing tired of it. Instead of pointing fingers at the US, people should police their own countries first and then worry about others.

Previous or current rights do not justify current or future wrongs.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Originally Posted by Danielmellbin

Previous or current rights do not justify current or future wrongs.

Agreed, but my point is that the rest of the world loves to point fingers and blame the US for everything. I am tired of it.

It is now time for the US to tell the world to **** off and have nothing to do with them. If a natural disaster occurs, take care of it yourselfs. You don't want the evil and always wrong Americans to come and help you, do you? Of course you do, America is great then!

The world needs to stop pointing fingers at the US for everything that is wrong in the world, take care of their own damn problems.

"Before you judge me, take a look at you.
Can't you find somethig better to do?
Point the finger, slow to understand,
arrogance and ignorance go hand in hand.

It's not who you are, it's who you know.
Others lives are the basis of your own.
Burn your bridges build them back with wealth,
Judge not lest ye be judged yourself!"

[JugBR]

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

No its just in fashion nowadays to blame the United States for everything that is wrong in the world. Everyone forgets the good things real quick (almost as soon as they are over), and always points the fingers.

I really can't wait fo the day for the United States to give a big **** You to everyone else. Let a natural disaster hit South America (no I do not really wish for this to happen to anyone), and then let them help themselves. Not a dime from the United States or a plane with food or money or anything. Just sit back and watch...

And that goes for everywhere else in the world.

I am ****ing tired of it. Instead of pointing fingers at the US, people should police their own countries first and then worry about others.

herr adler, we have no earthquaques or cyclones here, but if someday we had a katrina, the situation would be the same that happened in new orleans. many losses, many victims and many critics... cheers for others disgrace is stupid. many people around the world sent help for the victims of katrina. nobody made parties when katrina happened. nobody scrubs others face that helped in bad situations. i told you once, you should respect to be respected.

im ****ing laughing that you even try to understand what i wrote before write your statement. at least pb was inteligent and said a very important thing about the rainforrest issue. wich i agreed btw.

im ****ing laughing herr adler

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Originally Posted by JugBR

herr adler, we have no earthquaques or cyclones here, but if someday we had a katrina, the situation would be the same that happened in new orleans. many losses, many victims and many critics... cheers for others disgrace is stupid. many people around the world sent help for the victims of katrina. nobody made parties when katrina happened. nobody scrubs others face that helped in bad situations. i told you once, you should respect to be respected.

My post had nothing to with natural disastors that had happened.

Originally Posted by JugBR

im ****ing laughing that you even try to understand what i wrote before write your statement. at least pb was inteligent and said a very important thing about the rainforrest issue. wich i agreed btw.

I am ****ing laughing that you think my post had something to do with you. My post was directed at what pB said, not at anything you said. Sorry, but you are not that important. I dont mean to be blunt, but if you wish to be rude to me, when my post had nothing to do with yours, then I will go ahead and say it.

Originally Posted by JugBR

im ****ing laughing herr adler

Go ahead keep, laughing. It only proves how rude you are. In the end, I will have the last laugh. You can put money on that.

[Oreo]

Originally Posted by Njaco

Bingo!!

Sorry to say Oreo, but without "scientific" fact on what you propose, that just didn't happen. Don't you know about the Big Bang...or is it Cyclic? or.....(looking for phone number of Stephen Hawking).

I said at the beginning of my post that I don't expect anyone to believe it just because I say so. Unlike some people, I'm not offended when people don't believe me. I also acknowledge I have no proof for most of what I said. I'm not talking about proof, only the best thing I can conjecture from the facts around me.

I'm not talking about provable facts. I'm talking about FAITH. Faith is not fact. Faith is believing something when you can not use math or science to prove you are right.

It also involves figuring things out based on what you believe and the few things you do know. But to bypass most of the faith issue in my lengthy post (see several spots back), I do ask you this one thing based on fact and science--

Has the earth warmed up more or less continually since the big ice age, or has it not? Did we cause that warming or did we not? Did the earth survive the ice age, or did it not? Did life on earth survive the ice age by adapting or adjusting to the changes in climate, or did it not? And what makes you think the earth, and life on it, would not survive the temperature being raised another 10 degrees celsius over the next 1,000 years?

[Danielmellbin]

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

Agreed, but my point is that the rest of the world loves to point fingers and blame the US for everything. I am tired of it.

It is now time for the US to tell the world to **** off and have nothing to do with them. If a natural disaster occurs, take care of it yourselfs. You don't want the evil and always wrong Americans to come and help you, do you? Of course you do, America is great then!

The world needs to stop pointing fingers at the US for everything that is wrong in the world, take care of their own damn problems.

"Before you judge me, take a look at you.
Can't you find somethig better to do?
Point the finger, slow to understand,
arrogance and ignorance go hand in hand.

It's not who you are, it's who you know.
Others lives are the basis of your own.
Burn your bridges build them back with wealth,
Judge not lest ye be judged yourself!"

As long as the US is projecting its power in the whole world and has a very interventionist policy without cooperation with the rest of the western world - the fingers will keep pointing.

Whether or not you like it you are a part of this world and your actions will have consequences - some fair, some unfair. The help that the US provides is always welcomed and much appreciated. You are not the only nation that provides help and is then critizised one week later. People remember the wrongs longer than they remember the rights - a sad fact of human nature.

For a state actively engaged in regime change telling the rest of the world to mind its own business is hypocritical to say the least. And when it comes to Global Warming: Keyword: GLOBAL.