Global Warming: The New Religion

renrich · 08-03-2008, 04:40 PM

Marcel, as you know our founding fathers were pretty distrustful of government. That is why our government is supposed to be a government of laws, not men. We were supposed to be a republic not with unlimited suffrage which we are close to having now. No, I do not trust government. One reason I don't is that government is self perpetuating. A government agency is formed and the first thing those people in that agency do is try to insure they will always have a job. If the EPA said we don't have any problems then we could dissolve the EPA. If the scientists, government or otherwise, studying GW and what to do about it said there is no GW and CO2 has nothing to do with it, they would lose their government grants or jobs. When the EPA hires new professionals, they don't hire business people, they hire people who are "environmental scientists" who are most likely environmentalists. Do you think that you will get an objective opinion from them? If you go to the EPA and say I have this waste from my business I want to put in the landfill do you not think that if the EPA errs it will err on the side of "environmentalism" and CYA. Did you know that now in the US the Corps of Engineers can have jurisdiction over all wetlands. If you own a 20000 acre ranch in southeast Texas and there is a 2 acre wetlands on it and you damage it and some enviro wacko reports it you can be prosecuted. I am sure you know that the storms and lack of ice in Holland is no more evidence of GW than the severe winter and snow we had in Colorado last year is evidence of Global Cooling. Perhaps the storms and lack of ice is the result of the windbags and hot air in the environmental community.

pbfoot · 08-03-2008, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by renrich

If you go to the EPA and say I have this waste from my business I want to put in the landfill do you not think that if the EPA errs it will err on the side of "environmentalism" and CYA. .

Thank god for the EPA and their views you obviously forget about such things as the Love Canal but then again you never swam in that water like we did here.

Oreo · 08-03-2008, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcel

I see you are religious. Maybe think about this: He also gave us brains to think independently, hands to do things. I don't think He would like us to just sit, doing nothing and wait for Him to fix it all.

Sorry for the bad way of expression, I'm much better at Dutch, but I hope you understand what I mean.

No problem, Marcel! I am enjoying getting to know you on here. You have shown that you are a critical thinker and objective.

I am religious. Some people are. Actually everyone is: just some people admit it and others don't. Everyone has a religion, either one they adopt, one that adopts them, or one they concoct for themselves and call something else. Self-worship is one of the most common religions out there-- others worship humanism, capitalism, idealism, hedonism, nationalism, or whatever. I simply choose to worship the God I see revealed in the Bible.

He does give us brains to think for ourselves (and the will-power to do so), and also the responsibility to seek Him, submit to Him, accept His offer of Salvation from sin, and love Him. Those who don't, very sadly, have their ending spelled out for them. Those who do are promised (and given) eternal life with God. I have experienced life with God, and I highly recommend it to anyone.

However, God gives us the option of rejecting Him. The consequences of this have been warned about in the Bible.

You may view me as a nutcase, but these are the reasons I am not worried about global warming-- I know it will happen far more than it already has, and I know the one who will do it. I know I can't change it, and I know I have not been instructed to. I would much rather concern myself with more worthwhile things, and it saddens me to see so many people concerned about a non-issue. It saddens me to see people like Al Gore miss the point by worshiping the Earth rather than worshiping Earth's Creator.

I think you're a nice guy, Marcel, and very conscientious. I said from the beginning I did not expect people to agree with me.

Matt308 · 08-03-2008, 05:28 PM

That's a slightly different spin, Oreo. Didn't see that coming.

Oreo · 08-03-2008, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by renrich

Marcel, as you know our founding fathers were pretty distrustful of government. That is why our government is supposed to be a government of laws, not men. We were supposed to be a republic not with unlimited suffrage which we are close to having now. No, I do not trust government. One reason I don't is that government is self perpetuating. A government agency is formed and the first thing those people in that agency do is try to insure they will always have a job. If the EPA said we don't have any problems then we could dissolve the EPA. If the scientists, government or otherwise, studying GW and what to do about it said there is no GW and CO2 has nothing to do with it, they would lose their government grants or jobs. When the EPA hires new professionals, they don't hire business people, they hire people who are "environmental scientists" who are most likely environmentalists. Do you think that you will get an objective opinion from them? If you go to the EPA and say I have this waste from my business I want to put in the landfill do you not think that if the EPA errs it will err on the side of "environmentalism" and CYA. Did you know that now in the US the Corps of Engineers can have jurisdiction over all wetlands. If you own a 20000 acre ranch in southeast Texas and there is a 2 acre wetlands on it and you damage it and some enviro wacko reports it you can be prosecuted. I am sure you know that the storms and lack of ice in Holland is no more evidence of GW than the severe winter and snow we had in Colorado last year is evidence of Global Cooling. Perhaps the storms and lack of ice is the result of the windbags and hot air in the environmental community.

Thank you, renrich! Agree!

"Man who can not swim, ought not to put so much water in bathtub."
--- Ancient Chinese Philosopher.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 08-03-2008, 05:33 PM

I don't think you are a nutcase, but I do believe in freedom of religion and I would never push my religion (I happen to believe in god as well) on other people, no matter what the subject.

Matt308 · 08-03-2008, 05:59 PM

Agreed. Oreo's explanation was enlightening. I had never thought about his stated perspective.

What is the saying?

"God, give us grace to accept with serenity the things that cannot be changed, courage to change the things that should be changed, and the wisdom to distinguish the one from the other. "

renrich · 08-03-2008, 06:27 PM

PB, don't misunderstand me. I believe in clean water, air etc. and cleaning up the Love Canal was I am sure a worthy project but government agencies, often because of pressure from environmental groups sometimes carry things too far Right now, because of a spill off the coast near Santa Barbara, off shore drilling has been verboten for some years. Did you know that when the Spindletop well blew in near Beaumont in the early 20th century 800000 barrels of oil were spilled on the ground before they got it capped. The environment there was not damaged a great deal. Did you know that oil spilling from off shore platforms now constitutes only a miniscule portion of the oil on our beaches. The vast majority is from natural seepage. Crude oil is a natural product. Before they discovered that kerosene could be distilled from it, crude oil from the seeps in Pennsylvania was used as a remedy for various maladies. Right now, the EPA's over stringent regulations are a serious burden on our oil production here in the US. It is ridiculous for the US to be importing more than 70% of our oil, much of it from Canada because "environmental concerns" prevent us from drilling our own resources.

pbfoot · 08-03-2008, 06:35 PM

If you want to check out how zealous some agencies are in Canada it's nigh impossible to obtain money to purchase an established gas station or any property of similar zoning the reason being is if the borrower forfeits the bank would end up with the land and any resulting clean up

renrich · 08-03-2008, 07:06 PM

Things are beginning to move in that direction here also. An environmental impact statement is a laborius and time consuming process. If we had had the laws on the books in the 1850s we have now Drake might never have brought in that first well at Titusville and I guess we would still be using sperm oil for our lamps except all the sperm whales would be gone.

pbfoot · 08-03-2008, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by renrich

Things are beginning to move in that direction here also. An environmental impact statement is a laborius and time consuming process. If we had had the laws on the books in the 1850s we have now Drake might never have brought in that first well at Titusville and I guess we would still be using sperm oil for our lamps except all the sperm whales would be gone.

I think Petrolia Ontario was few years before Titusville 1857 vs 1859

Matt308 · 08-03-2008, 07:33 PM

I $hit you not, the regulatory burden upon our society is astronomical. And the Greens, the animal worshipers, the Gaya worshipers, the Birch Societies, the World Over Population societies, the Sierra Clubs, the Green Peace's, yadda yadda yadda... they all contribute time, resources, monetary and lawyer power to prohibit/inhibit use of our natural resources.

And then the same folks who support these radical groups end up complaining about the results. Want higher prices for your major/minor household appliances? Support the Anarchists. Want to avoid having vegetarianism shoved down your throat? Support your local PETA animal rights group. Want your forest areas, state and federal park off limits to all but the most hardened backpackers? Support the Sierra Clubbers. Want to be forced to have your property landscaped by the govt, be told you can't develope your 20acre property because an eagle's nest is in a remote tree, or cannot condemn your wacky neighbor's house because the elderly twins are purposely feeding rats and other vermin... then vote for animal rights extremists. Want to be forced to be taxed into riding public transit, small vehicles, or having your transit dollars reallocated to $billion dollar wasteful and non-efficient transportation... then vote for the greens.

Now before you spill your guts claiming that lack of foresight prevents me from seeing a modicum of good from these types of efforts, I too believe that change in how we live can be more accomodating to these desires. However, I am absolutely opposed to the "light switch" mentality that we should invest literally billions to change our society in pursuit of such lofty goals like those that dumb effer Gore supports such as completely revamping our energy grid in 10 years. 10 years? Gore is a moron.

pbfoot · 08-03-2008, 07:46 PM

[quote=Matt308;382623] Want to be forced to be taxed into riding public transit, small vehicles, or having your transit dollars reallocated to $billion dollar wasteful and non-efficient transportation... then vote for the greens.[quote]

I hate to mention this but much of the efficient transportation in major US cities was bought out by a Cabal of GM, Firestone ,Standard Oil ,Philips and Mack to put street cars systems out of businees and replace with buses and cars in Detroit, New York, Oakland, Philadelphia, St. Louis, Salt Lake City, Tulsa, Baltimore, Minneapolis, Seattle and Los Angeles,
They were found guilty with anti trust violations and ffined $5000.00 and the execs $1.00

Great American streetcar scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

tpikdave · 08-03-2008, 07:50 PM

Who was keeping track of the Global temperatures in 1880 ???? Just wondering.

Matt308 · 08-03-2008, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pbfoot

I hate to mention this but much of the efficient transportation in major US cities was bought out by a Cabal of GM, Firestone ,Standard Oil ,Philips and Mack to put street cars systems out of businees and replace with buses and cars in Detroit, New York, Oakland, Philadelphia, St. Louis, Salt Lake City, Tulsa, Baltimore, Minneapolis, Seattle and Los Angeles,
They were found guilty with anti trust violations and ffined $5000.00 and the execs $1.00

Great American streetcar scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Don't be afraid to mention that Pb. I am fully aware of it. Just because it is history does not mean it a bad thing.