Gun laws in the place you live.

[renrich]

Now that we have all that behind us it is interesting to note that producing guns was one of the earliest forms of manufacturing in the US and also where the use of interchangeable parts came into use here. That use of interchangeable parts led to the beginning of the assembly line. I believe that many of our early gun makers came here to the US from the Germanic states. One of the founders of one of our most prominent and successful gun manufacturers, Bill Ruger, had German ancestors.

[ccheese]

Originally Posted by Marcel

Okay, apology accepted

Good ! Now let's everybody walk away, count ten, and cool off.

Lets the games resume.....

Charles

[Marcel]

Originally Posted by ccheese

Good ! Now let's everybody walk away, count ten, and cool off.

Lets the games resume.....

Charles

I'm cool already Charles, don't worry.

Originally Posted by Oreo

Thanks, Marcel. Sometimes I get carried away. You seem like a real decent guy, and if I ever come to Holland, I won't bring my gun (couldn't anyway).

Let me know, I'll buy you some Belgian beer and you can enjoy the good things from Europe

[Oreo]

Originally Posted by ccheese

Good ! Now let's everybody walk away, count ten, and cool off.

Lets the games resume.....

Charles

I'm cool. I repent in sackcloth and ashes. Btw, M8's it's over 100 degrees F (38-39 C) here today!

[Oreo]

Originally Posted by Marcel

Let me know, I'll buy you some Belgian beer and you can enjoy the good things from Europe

I appreciate it! However, I've never drank any beer at all in my life, I'll just have some coffee and some delicious European food! Maybe you can take me to see all the sights in your country. I know there's a lot to see!

[Marcel]

Originally Posted by Oreo

I appreciate it! However, I've never drank any beer at all in my life, I'll just have some coffee and some delicious European food! Maybe you can take me to see all the sights in your country. I know there's a lot to see!

Okay, coffee it is. We have some wonderfull WWII sites to see.

[Oreo]

Originally Posted by Marcel

Okay, coffee it is. We have some wonderfull WWII sites to see.

OK! Coffee it is, and whatever good stuff you have to eat there, and maybe a soft-drink or fruit juice! I would love to see the WWII sites and maybe some Renaissance artwork. Maybe you have a museum full of the entire history of Fokker, which would be good!

[JugBR]

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

I defend the United States and my fellow American on this forum every ****ing day, but I will not tolerate insults to others either. It goes both ways. Do you understand?

i think you would be surprised how good is the name of americans in the world. because besides the critics, the 20 century, for example, was the american century: mass production, light, tv broadcasting, movies, medicines, air liners... 1000 years in one century.

the usa is criticized because its the natural leadership of world. the highest position, the bigger pressure. and all the things we say, are said also by the oposition of bush in usa by americans.

nobody heres are attacking your american fellows, you have no reason here to defend them every day.

you can also criticize brazil or s. america or europe, same way i criticize bush jr.

its not because i dont agree with iraq invasion that im a anti-american. im here sitting down in front my pentium III, smoking my marlboro, listen dead kennedys... what tha freak anti-american i am ?

i just wanted to put this very clear, criticize bush jr. its not attack usa, otherwise, nobody would criticize him, and that would be dangerous, agreed ?

[Marcel]

Agreed, as we say here in the Netherlands: High winds catch much wind.

[Airfix]

Originally Posted by JugBR

...listen dead kennedys...

I thought i was the only one left doing that!
Punk music rocks, sometimes.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Originally Posted by JugBR

i think you would be surprised how good is the name of americans in the world. because besides the critics, the 20 century, for example, was the american century: mass production, light, tv broadcasting, movies, medicines, air liners... 1000 years in one century.

the usa is criticized because its the natural leadership of world. the highest position, the bigger pressure. and all the things we say, are said also by the oposition of bush in usa by americans.

nobody heres are attacking your american fellows, you have no reason here to defend them every day.

you can also criticize brazil or s. america or europe, same way i criticize bush jr.

its not because i dont agree with iraq invasion that im a anti-american. im here sitting down in front my pentium III, smoking my marlboro, listen dead kennedys... what tha freak anti-american i am ?

i just wanted to put this very clear, criticize bush jr. its not attack usa, otherwise, nobody would criticize him, and that would be dangerous, agreed ?

And that is not what I meant either. I was talking about the "bad american" syndrom.

By the way, the part of the discussion I was referring to had moved on...

[JoeB]

One difference in outlook I often see between 'pro-gun' and 'anti-gun' people, both within the US and US v other developed countries, is this: the modern liberal (not trying to use that as dirty word but I think it is typical of people relatively more to the left, in general) tends to view the role of govt and laws to fix, or at least improve, society on the whole, on average. So, a statistical argument that restricting guns will save lives is very attractive and appealing. If it will reduce murders, at least a little, why not do it? If someone who lives or runs a business in a dangerous area now is less able to defend themselves: 'some sacrifices must be made, but the overall public good must win out', they would tend to say, if honest.

On the more conservative side (in the Ronald Reagan-style sense, for lack of a more precise term) there is more emphasis on the individual. In the US particularly there's the second amendment, which Supreme Court just re-affirmed as enumerating an individual right to be armed, not something to be decided necessarily cost/benefit-wise based on statistics. And even besides that amendment, the conservative of that mold will tend to evaluate such laws in terms of their effect on the hypothetical responsible citizen, not necessarily based on overall statistics. So for example if there's a reasonable argument a responsible person could increase his safety by having a gun at home, why not allow it? the conservative is not much swayed by the argument or stats of how less responsible people fare with guns, that's their problem, they would tend to say, if honest.

Besides that difference, pro and anti-gun control people will also argue the statistics themselves of course. The pro-gun will not necessarily acknowledge that strict handgun laws might reduce the murder rate, and OTOH the anti-gun will tend to deduce gun law reasons for the difference in murder rates between places where a lot of other things are also different (demographics, etc). But even if the stats can be agreed, there's still that basic difference in assumption, as to what the role of the govt is: mainly to optimize things for a majority of people, or mainly to limit itself from interference in individual's lives as much as possible. If people are not on the same basic page on that, they will tend to talk past each other on issues like gun control.

Joe

[JugBR]

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

And that is not what I meant either. I was talking about the "bad american" syndrom.

By the way, the part of the discussion I was referring to had moved on...

"bad american" syndrom ?

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Originally Posted by JugBR

"bad american" syndrom ?

Come to Europe and see for yourself.

Now lets move on...

[JugBR]

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

Come to Europe and see for yourself.

Now lets move on...

well ill go to europe very soon anyway, ill visit my roots in austria and croatia. maybe i would go to germany too.