How Do You Grade the Bush Administrations Energy Policy

Kruska · 06-19-2008, 12:18 PM

Yes Messy, off course Americans will go more into alternative energies at the same time they will reduce their consumption just as it has happened in Europe and it will take time. As I mentioned before Germany is importing more or less 100% of its oil.

But if you look at Germany, you will not find the civil courage and determination as displayed by the common American. Germany has been in sh..t up to its neck for the past 20 years and nothing is done besides people complaining in their living rooms to themselves.
Mainly due to the fact that the government in the meantime controls the country totally through its institutions and not the voters control or can force the government to act in their interest such as in the USA.

Unfortunately the only once to congregate and form demonstrating alliances that are actually capable to perform, are the tree huggers and pacifists who in turn caused most of the existing problems.

Regards
Kruska

Haztoys · 06-19-2008, 12:33 PM

One thing a lot of the world does not bring up on the fuel used ..Is we have to move goods so far in the US do to its so big ...England Germany Japan do not have to move goods as far there countrys are much smaller ... its a fact ..And not sure on how it can be helped or fixed ...

syscom3 · 06-19-2008, 12:49 PM

A true leader (in the US senate or congress) would say:

"We are now going to drill offshore and in ANWR. But at the same time, it will be a requirement for 'x' percentage of cars and light trucks to be powered by alternative fuels within 'y' number of years. We will also be licensing new nuclear plants, but the sun drenched southwest WILL be required to convert to solar power IMMEDIATLY."

But then, not one single republican or democrat has the moral courage to do it.

ToughOmbre · 06-19-2008, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by syscom3

A true leader (in the US senate or congress) would say:

"We are now going to drill offshore and in ANWR. But at the same time, it will be a requirement for 'x' percentage of cars and light trucks to be powered by alternative fuels within 'y' number of years. We will also be licensing new nuclear plants, but the sun drenched southwest WILL be required to convert to solar power IMMEDIATLY."

But then, not one single republican or democrat has the moral courage to do it.

Bingo!

"Courage"? Meaning unknown by any of our "leaders".

TO

Kruska · 06-19-2008, 12:56 PM

It is a circle Haztoys, were it is not advisable to single out issues. Let me please explain.

First Europe is about the size of the USA (Forget Alaska

), so a German Mercedes or a Spanish Seat needs to be transported in and throughout Europe just as well, as any other commodities.

Post office: I think in every European country, the post is delivered onto your footsteps. In the US e.g. my parents place in Colorado, you need a car to get to the post office in order to collect your mail. Public transport virtually does not exist.

Now for this “service” the German income is taxed with 54% if your income is above 5000$ a month, how about the US?

So everything has its price right?

Regards
Kruska

Messy1 · 06-19-2008, 01:16 PM

The only thing that is certain is it will be no easy fix. Everything that we get here is Iowa, is either transported by semi truck, or railways. I want to know if the tree huggers are going to be content when the major cost of any product they want to buy, no matter it be food, furniture, TV, etc ends uo being the fuel cost required to ship the product. Right now is the first time in history when a freight company's fuel charge has become more expensive then the labor they pay their employees. All the cost will be transferred to the consumer!

Are the tree huggers going to be happy that we are not drilling, or building nuclear power plants, etc. when things get so expensive that they cannot afford to live as they want to!

Messy1 · 06-19-2008, 01:28 PM

BTW, I think a better poll title would be the governments energy policy as G.W. Bush has not helped anything out, but to be fair, he certainly inherited a huge 800lb. gorilla that has gone unattended through many administrations long before Bush came to office.

Haztoys · 06-19-2008, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Messy1

BTW, I think a better poll title would be the governments energy policy as G.W. Bush has not helped anything out, but to be fair, he certainly inherited a huge 800lb. gorilla that has gone unattended through many administrations long before Bush came to office.

Bingo ...And a Congress thats Dem heavy and fights him all the way ...Not that it would not be the same if the shoe was on the other foot...

Congress have hurt this country more the Bush has in the last two years .. They were going to sink his ship ..So there guy could win in 08,... The hell with want it does to the little guy...

Its all about the party...

Haztoys · 06-19-2008, 01:54 PM

Apples to oranges Kruska ... Your taking Europe as a whole ... Is what I'm trying to say ...Is if apples are grown in the far east of Germany and sold in the far west of Germany ..It takes far less fuel to move then in the US .. We live farther apart then other countrys do the fact were bigger...

With the way your thinking ...I wonder how much Europe uses in oil combined...?? ... More then the US ..?? I would think less...

I'm one who does not drive a big gas drinking car ...My old Capri get 30+ ...But all the cars around me are not ...I have other cars that drink gas but there not my every day ride...

Messy1 · 06-19-2008, 01:58 PM

The divide between the two party's and doing what is best for the party has definitely caused it's share of problems! Just get together, drop your agendas, and do what needs to be done for your country. Maybe us, the regular citizens, are too blame as we have let the politicians get away with this crap for way too long!

Kruska · 06-19-2008, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haztoys

Apples to oranges Kruska ... Your taking Europe as a whole ... Is what I'm trying to say ...Is if apples are grown in the far east of Germany and sold in the far west of Germany ..It takes far less fuel to move then in the US .. We live farther apart then other countrys do the fact were bigger...

With the way your thinking ...I wonder how much Europe uses in oil combined...?? ... More then the US ..?? I would think less...

Since Germany is not self-sufficient on commodities and food supply as any other European country, you will have to look upon Europe as an economic comparrison. Since our strawberries come from Tunisia, and tomatoes from Holland are sold from Portugal to Sweden to Greece.
That New York imports/transports more wine from/then California is most likely.

Europe Oil consumption in 05 9,500,000 bpd GDP 16800.00$ pop. 460mil
USA Oil consumption in 05 10.017.000 bpd GDP 12438.87 $ pop.300mil

These figures show clearly that the US is consuming far more then Europe in regards to population/industry due to less alternative energy and also less action or law regulations towards saving energy then Europe.

Saving oil might be a good idea, but it won’t change the price tag. E.g. Europe transports most goods on rail – to maintain this rail net costs more than what is saved through less oil being blown through the truck. Most national Railways in Europe are even heavily subsidized by the respective governments.

Regards
Kruska

pbfoot · 06-19-2008, 03:54 PM

I think many people forget that the infrastructure of Europe has ben in place for centuries whereas in north America we are new. my Grandparents were pioneers in the truest sense living miles from other's that would be a hard claim to make in Europe . If you go to Europe its hard to find wilderness as found here there are no places in Europe that are 100's of km from other civilization in fact if I recall you can almost throw a rock from one town to the other. I agree in N America public transpoprtation is poor for the most part but its a fact of life we spread out a lot more Toronto 5 million and 7100sq/km and Berlin with roughly the same population has an area of 900 sq/km what this says is because we were new expanded outwards and Europe went up and smaller abodes

Haztoys · 06-19-2008, 03:56 PM

Yea ..Europe has been having to pay high gas prices for some time now ..So they have changed there ways some time ago.. We could see it coming and did jack.. Like I side we in the US do not do jack untill were in way deep..What were we thinking it would not happen ...

Messy1 · 06-19-2008, 04:05 PM

North America has expanded at a very fast rate compared to other nations. That rapid expansion has a price that most of the population did not think about until the last few decades. I do not know of any other nation the size of the U.S. that is as evenly populated as we are. Russia still has huge areas of land where you would be hard pressed to find a decent population living. It's a product of that rapid expansion that goods and products would need to be transported. Whereas Europe is densely populated, and their travels modes have been in place for decades and decades, America spread out.

freebird · 06-19-2008, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToughOmbre

Fair question, but in addition how do you grade the liberals who repeatedly.....

Vote against nuclear power plants

Vote against drilling for oil in Anwar

Vote against drilling for oil off shore (FL, NJ etc)

And then they come up with a windfall profits tax against the oil companies.

Plenty of blame to go arond ever since 1974 (1st OPEC oil embargo, remember those gas lines?)

I give them all (presidents and both houses of congress) an F.

TO

Very few of the Dem's have a sensible energy policy. But things are looking up,

the new bill bans the government from buying oil from the USA's unstable northern neighbor {Canada}, so that you can drive up the price for Iran & S. Arabia.....

Thanks guys.....

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