Iranian President Calls WW2 Holocaust A Myth

[Hunter368]

Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ

Both were pretty straight up - the -86 had 3 hydraulic systems so it leaked a lot, the Mig was a lot simpler and basically had many "bolt on features" that made maintenance easy. Everything you've read or heard about the Mig-15 and the F-86 is true, I believe over-all the F-86F was superior to the Mig-15, especially with a seasoned pilot flying it...

Very cool, I would have to agree with you on the F-86 and the pilots kill-loss record backs that up. i have alot of very detailed records on the kill-loss record from then and F86 did well for it self.

[Hunter368]

Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ

Now I want to ask you - "Kill everyone?" Are we referring to actions in Iraq or in Afganistan? Do you think the US military arbitrarilly goes around shooting civilians just for the hell of it. If you want to refer to what's going on in the middle east, the most radical Muslims had their world set - they had control of a whole country, they could of burnt US flags and shouted slogans all day in demonstrations and they were doing well blowing up what they viewed as satanic monuments. They decided to perpetuate an attack against the US and they lost everything. If this was a matter of simply killing people because they disagree with US policy, 10 B-52s could of taken out half the region, I think you have to examine the bigger picture and realize that despite the hostilities in Afghanistan and Iraq (which in some instances I disagree, my own opinion) the US and other coalition forces have painstakingly avoid unnecessary civilian causalities to the point where coalition soldiers were wounded and killed because of this policy.

The Islamic revolution started in 1979 - if we would of wanted to kill everyone who disagree with us the middle east would of been laid to waste years ago.....

Sorry your name is Joe ? Mine is Mark. I 100% back up the USA action in both Afghanistan and Iraq, I was ashamed how Canadian goverment failed to back USA. USA has done about as good as job in Iraq as a military can (few bad incedents). USA could not flatten Middle East with B-52 and this is why, not b/c they could not actually do it, they could but they never would. The reason for that is simple there would be soooooooo much outrage around the world if it was done that wow none of us here could even imagine it, we can't it has never been done. What I mean is this about "killing people", USA (west also) should not just react they should be proactive more. They should try harder at doing things less with their muscle and more with their pocket book and mouth. talk to these people more, less guns up their butts and more money on their tables. I read once that for all the money spent in WW2 just in Italy when the Allies were attacking the soft under belly, instead of fighting they could taken that money and been able to afford to pay each German in Italy at the time and paid them $90,000 to come over and surrender. Now is that number 100% correct most likely not been its a good point. how many Germans would of come over and taken that money. i believe that USA has tried this in the cold war with some success, I think they even got one or two Russian jets out of it. Sweet deal. Thats all I ever have been trying to say, if we were less ready to go to war (I fully support it as a last resort, it can help in the short term) and instead of always trying to react to the problem lets send more money and time trying to errase those problems before they come up. The west and USA will never ever win the war on terrorists the way they are doing it now, all they are doing is reacting, then it is to late. Killing one of them just makes them a martyr, and more ammo to feed their troops to attack us more. I hope I have explained it better.

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by Hunter368

Sorry your name is Joe ? Mine is Mark. I 100% back up the USA action in both Afghanistan and Iraq, I was ashamed how Canadian goverment failed to back USA. USA has done about as good as job in Iraq as a military can (few bad incedents). USA could not flatten Middle East with B-52 and this is why, not b/c they could not actually do it, they could but they never would. The reason for that is simple there would be soooooooo much outrage around the world if it was done that wow none of us here could even imagine it, we can't it has never been done.

Agree - and that's why it hasn't been done

Originally Posted by Hunter368

What I mean is this about "killing people", USA (west also) should not just react they should be proactive more. They should try harder at doing things less with their muscle and more with their pocket book and mouth. talk to these people more, less guns up their butts and more money on their tables. I read once that for all the money spent in WW2 just in Italy when the Allies were attacking the soft under belly, instead of fighting they could taken that money and been able to afford to pay each German in Italy at the time and paid them $90,000 to come over and surrender. Now is that number 100% correct most likely not been its a good point. how many Germans would of come over and taken that money.

I've heard that too - read on and you'll see why it's unrealistic

Originally Posted by Hunter368

i believe that USA has tried this in the cold war with some success, I think they even got one or two Russian jets out of it. Sweet deal. Thats all I ever have been trying to say, if we were less ready to go to war (I fully support it as a last resort, it can help in the short term) and instead of always trying to react to the problem lets send more money and time trying to errase those problems before they come up. The west and USA will never ever win the war on terrorists the way they are doing it now, all they are doing is reacting, then it is to late. Killing one of them just makes them a martyr, and more ammo to feed their troops to attack us more. I hope I have explained it better.

There's a 25 million dollar bounty out for Bin Laden as we speak. It it was that easy just to buy out the opposition, Bin Laden would of been "dimed" years ago. At the same time many Middle East countries were actually funding Palestinians to commit suicide bombings. With all the money that Iran, Iraq, Syria etc. pumped into the region to covertly oppose Israel, the Palestinians could of taken the money, accepted the Gaza strip and West bank as their territories and lived happily ever after. No, instead they accept the the hate fill sermons of their Clerics (The main cause of all of this) and continue to perpetuate this violence.

If it was about money, the Middle East would be a giant resort. With these folks peace cannot be bought with money, hate has more value than money....

[Hunter368]

Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ

Agree - and that's why it hasn't been done

I've heard that too - read on and you'll see why it's unrealistic

There's a 25 million dollar bounty out for Bin Laden as we speak. It it was that easy just to buy out the opposition, Bin Laden would of been "dimed" years ago. At the same time many Middle East countries were actually funding Palestinians to commit suicide bombings. With all the money that Iran, Iraq, Syria etc. pumped into the region to covertly oppose Israel, the Palestinians could of taken the money, accepted the Gaza strip and West bank as their territories and lived happily ever after. No, instead they accept the the hate fill sermons of their Clerics (The main cause of all of this) and continue to perpetuate this violence.

If it was about money, the Middle East would be a giant resort. With these folks peace cannot be bought with money, hate has more value than money....

Very very true, again I agree with you. But I'm not just saying trying to buy them all out, that was just one idea or thing that I thought of. I just can't believe there is not any other way other than killing them. I am the type of person that does not accept no or answer and I never say I can't do it. There is a way we just have not thought of it. If all of the goverments over the years have not thought of it then it is a hard nut to crack but it has to be possible. The only people you cannot reason with are the insane, they are far from insane (they can be very clever and smart as they have proven). I don't claim to have the final answer, but there has to be one. Look back in time and see all the different people that have had different ideas of right and wrong and see how they fought back and forth and in the end they have come up with a settlement that both can live with. There has to be one.

[Nonskimmer]

I'd be very, very interested to hear the type of solution that you have in mind though, Hunter. Buy them out? C'mon.
Even if the United States were capable of that, why the hell should they? No really, why the hell should they?

What do you think Canada should have done to support the US led coalition in Iraq? Military aid or some sort of funding perhaps? Or maybe just something as simple as an endorsement and a show of verbal support? "Way to go boys, we're rootin' for ya!"
We're as capable as the next guy on the block of standing behind 'em and shouting "Good for you!", but if you're talking about something tangible and useful like military assistance, we just don't have it to give. You must surly be aware of that. Aside from maybe one or two battalions, we can spare nothing. It's all we can do to support the boys and girls we have in Afghanistan at the moment, and that small number is due to increase real soon. The Forces are in the middle of reorganizing at present, and with this election looming the future is uncertain at best. Canada is totally unprepared for any sort of large-scale, long-term military undertaking. We are not prepared for war, and security at home has only recently begun to catch up to the realities of the post 9/11 world. We have a long way to go.

[Erich]

Mark where to begin...............I will say it again and I have to discount your Muslim associates but you have to realize the mid-eastern way of thinking is nowhere in the world like our western philosphy. What comes close is the exchange of monies only, other than that they want you and all of us westerners dead with our heads on a platter. The gift zwerg that was the Palestinian leader for so many years, a terrorist not just in word only had a huge bank account fully funded by the mideast and western powers just waiting for him in Switzerland had he lived longer and issued an heir to the Palestinian cause. proof enough when his fat-ass wife wanted the palestinaian authorities to close down all secret documentation to Arafats personal belongings. so you see it goeas aropund the top dogs don;t give a rats behind about their own, but are willing to sacrifice the commoner for a so-called idealogy

[Hunter368]

Originally Posted by Nonskimmer

I'd be very, very interested to hear the type of solution that you have in mind though, Hunter. Buy them out? C'mon.
Even if the United States were capable of that, why the hell should they? No really, why the hell should they?

What do you think Canada should have done to support the US led coalition in Iraq? Military aid or some sort of funding perhaps? Or maybe just something as simple as an endorsement and a show of verbal support? "Way to go boys, we're rootin' for ya!"
We're as capable as the next guy on the block of standing behind 'em and shouting "Good for you!", but if you're talking about something tangible and useful like military assistance, we just don't have it to give. You must surly be aware of that. Aside from maybe one or two battalions, we can spare nothing. It's all we can do to support the boys and girls we have in Afghanistan at the moment, and that small number is due to increase real soon. The Forces are in the middle of reorganizing at present, and with this election looming the future is uncertain at best. Canada is totally unprepared for any sort of large-scale, long-term military undertaking. We are not prepared for war, and security at home has only recently begun to catch up to the realities of the post 9/11 world. We have a long way to go.

I agree with you we have nothing much to send but even verbally backing them would of been nice. Damn we were close to as back as France on that one. yikes

[Hunter368]

Originally Posted by Erich

Mark where to begin...............I will say it again and I have to discount your Muslim associates but you have to realize the mid-eastern way of thinking is nowhere in the world like our western philosphy. What comes close is the exchange of monies only, other than that they want you and all of us westerners dead with our heads on a platter. The gift zwerg that was the Palestinian leader for so many years, a terrorist not just in word only had a huge bank account fully funded by the mideast and western powers just waiting for him in Switzerland had he lived longer and issued an heir to the Palestinian cause. proof enough when his fat-ass wife wanted the palestinaian authorities to close down all secret documentation to Arafats personal belongings. so you see it goeas aropund the top dogs don;t give a rats behind about their own, but are willing to sacrifice the commoner for a so-called idealogy

So what are you trying to say? Just say it. You want us to just shoot them all or just the head guys or all muslims or what? What is your ideas how to fix it then? It is always always easy to be the devil's advocate and mucher harder to come up with real solutions. I seem to be the only one trying to come up with a solution here other than killing them so lets here all your great ideas guys? Is that their ideas guys ? shoot them or what? lets hear them. fire away those ideas I want to hear them.

[Nonskimmer]

I haven't even heard an idea from you yet. I'm still waiting. Don't put the onus on anyone else to solve the problem of unrelenting hatred and the need for terror and violence in the Middle East if you haven't got a clue of how to cure it yourself. We're not diplomats here. Only some simple folk with opinions of our own, just like yourself.

[syscom3]

Most moderate muslims live in fear of the fanatics. Once a feeble minded person is convinced that god is on his side, who knows what atrocities will be commited.

[FLYBOYJ]

I believe we (the west) are used as a scapegoat for their problems. One could bring up the exploitation of the Arab over oil, colonization, etc., bottom line radical Muslims knows the hatred their Clerics preach unites Islam - it's their bread and butter! If the west gave the Islamic world every last thing they desired, some cleric would still find a reason to perpetuate hatred toward the west!!!

Case in point - BOSNIA! Thousands of Muslims were being slaughtered until NATO forces went in and began military action against Serbia. Did NATO or any other nations of Western Europe ever receive any recognition from the Islamic world over those actions?!? NO!!! The US assisted in that effort that ultimately SAVED thousands of Muslim lives and the only thing we got from it was 9-11!!!!!

[syscom3]

Ive read somewhere that if all the oil revenues that the OPEC arabs have collected over the past 30 years were to have been intelligently invested without fraud or corruption, the people who live in the arab OPEC nations would be multi millionairs by now.

[Erich]

Mark you still do not understand the eastern way of thinking do you ?

your ideas you call them cannot work as they will not be accepted and actually laughed at as they put a bullet in your head. simplification process 101 for you.............THIS IS ALL THEY UNDERSTAND ! I have seen it first hand and it has been going on for thousnads of years. We do not understand here in the west because we don't live in this type of fear, at least not yet ....

am I saying the survivalist creed ? "KILL EM ALL ?" no I am not but will a handshake and peace to you brother slogan work with them......... NO

[Nonskimmer]

It is not the responsibility of the western world, Christians, Jews, or anyone else to appease the burning hatred that is clearly felt by many of the Muslim faith towards us all. This isn't paranoia, it's hard reality. The US happens to be the largest, most powerful target and the symbol of all things to do with modern western civilization. The solution may not be to kill them all, but by the very same token we can't just let the lunatics among them destroy us. That's precisely what they wish to do, and the terror is perpetrated and perpetuated by them. I therefore fail to see how the problem of coming up with an effective end to their hatred becomes ours.

[Erich]

skimm well put !

Sys so where do you think all the big boy dollars have been going in the first place ? not to the commoner I can assure you. and saved for what indeed. Power, greed, land, and on it goes ..........