Iraq - what now?

mkloby · 11-01-2006, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

A Chinook does not have to have a "Glass Cockpit" to be night and IFR capable.

What makes it able to fly in the bad weather is its NAV equipment and possibly Dopler Radar.

I know the Blackhawks that were in my unit had "conventional" cockpits not the glass cockpits and we were fully cable of doing that.

That was my point a digital glass cockpit has nothing to do w/ the radio instruments for flying instruments, it's digital instead of on dials and gauges and such. Also, you can fly wearing NVGs at night.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 11-01-2006, 11:21 AM

Exactly at night we flew with NVG's. NVG's operate off of batteries that are attached in a pack on your flight helmet. Nothing more.

FLYBOYJ · 11-01-2006, 12:02 PM

There are some RAF Chinooks equipped with NVG's, I briefly worked on the program and visited Odiham in 2002 to "sign off" one of the installations. The only weather it seems these guys avoided was "visible moisture" under potential freezing conditions, which I think we all know could be disastrous for a helicopter...

Depending on the system, all the glass bezels have to be replaced with a special glass that will filter out any white light. This includes the radio face-plates. This glass is brittle and very expensive - I was a NVG set up on my A Star when I was doing the air ambulance gig.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 11-01-2006, 01:02 PM

There is one easy way to fix that problem until you get the Green face plates, and that is to use a black magic marker to cover up all the red and white light.

We have green light for everything in the cockpit in our Blackhawks and Chinooks. When our unit had to replacea radio face plate and all it had was a red or white light face plate we took black magic marker or duct tape and covered it and it fixed the problem until the correct face plate arrived and it was installed.

There is no reason for a Chinook in the RAF inventory to be NVG grounded because of white light.

Give me the email address to these units and I will teach them.

FLYBOYJ · 11-01-2006, 01:47 PM

hehehe....

We never tried the magic marker trick on the ones in the A Star. I wasn't around when the RAF got theirs into operation.

The program manager on the A Star was a flaming @sshole, (one reason why I quit that job) he once ranted and raved about how none of the mechaincs better break one of the bezels. Prior to me quitting that job my bird had 3 broken - all by the pilots!

mkloby · 11-01-2006, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ

Prior to me quitting that job my bird had 3 broken - all by the pilots!

Well come on - if it's giving an unexpected reading, you whack it before executing an EP!

plan_D · 11-01-2006, 06:20 PM

It's not the half glass, half not cockpit that makes the Chinook unable to fly at night or in bad weather. It's the fact that these new ones have pieces MISSING...instruments MISSING ...and a lot of the systems that are in there don't work together.

The RAF engineers and pilots can't do anything about it. The government have to pay Boeing to do it. But they're TIGHT ...

mkloby · 11-01-2006, 06:45 PM

That's a strange situation - it doesn't take many systems or instruments to fly IFR - that whatever is installed doesn't work together. What did your gov't not know what avionics they ordered?

plan_D · 11-01-2006, 06:48 PM

I don't know the exact details. But...governments aren't made up of engineers or militarymen, nor do they listen to them. Governments are suits with no clue, and like their money in their pockets.

FLYBOYJ · 11-01-2006, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkloby

Well come on - if it's giving an unexpected reading, you whack it before executing an EP!

Ya know, those bozos were using the NVGs while VFR in marginal weather, within mountainous terrain, looking for obstructions, etc. I think it was an accident waiting to happen...

mkloby · 11-01-2006, 10:17 PM

Well bad things usually happen when the gov't meddles in the military's acquisition of equipment... except I can't say that the AF not getting authorization for 400 something F-22s at over 100mil a pop is a bad thing seeing as they have no enemy to use 400 of them against presently...

k9kiwi · 11-02-2006, 12:18 AM

Quote:

governments aren't made up of engineers or militarymen, nor do they listen to them. Governments are suits with no clue

One day you will realise how wrong that statement is.

plan_D · 11-02-2006, 07:36 AM

If the British government had listened to it's military leaders, then certain aircraft and certain military actions would have been done properly. The minister of Defence for Great Britain has never been in the military.

So, where military funding is concerned - no, they don't have a clue. And my statement couldn't be more right.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 11-02-2006, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkloby

That's a strange situation - it doesn't take many systems or instruments to fly IFR - that whatever is installed doesn't work together. What did your gov't not know what avionics they ordered?

Yeah that makes now sense because all that is required for IFR flight is everything that is standard installed in an aircraft so that it can fly period. I just checked to make sure and the rules in England are the same as in the US.

In order to fly IFR all you need is:

The same instruments required for VFR which come standard in all built Chinook helicopters from the factory.

Collision and Position lights which come standard built into the Chinook.

2-way radio, rate-of-bank, ball, sensitive altimeter, clock, generator, attitude indicator, heading indicator. All of these come standard in the Chinook also and are not special requirements. You order a Chinook they come in it otherwise you cant even fly the aircraft from the port that it was delivered at to the airfield it is based at.

You need a DME above 24,000ft (not going to be a factor for the Chinook, since it aint going to fly that high)

VSI not required.

I dont understand how the Chinooks in England are not capable of flying IFR. They come built to fly IFR.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 11-02-2006, 09:53 AM

I just did a search for the problem and found that the Chinooks are capable of flight in IFR conditions and NVG conditions but due to lack of funds are continually grounded due to lack of spare parts. The aircraft have been in continual ops since 2001 and there are not eneogh of them. They also said that there were not eneogh crews that were IFR and NVG trained due to lack of funding.

This was stated from Chinook crews at several websites.