Israel Attacks Lebanon

[Pisis]

OK, no problem but I liked that. Why? (PM)

[lesofprimus]

The middle finger thing annoys some people Pisis...

[Hunter368]

Ok here are the numbers reported by the AP:

LEBANON:

• Deaths: 845 total — 743 civilians, 34 soldiers and 68 Hezbollah. Israel says it killed about 530 guerrillas. The Higher Relief Council put the overall death toll at 1,181 and said one-third were children and the majority were civilians.

• Wounded: 4,051.

• Number of buildings destroyed: More than 15,000 homes — houses or individual apartments within buildings. About 900 commercial structures, including farms and factories.

• Number of strikes: Lebanese officials reported, unofficially, more than 4,500 Israeli bombing raids on Lebanon. Israel would provide no figures of the number of its strikes in Lebanon.

• Number of displaced people: 916,000, or about one-fourth of the population.

• There were no school days lost because they were not in session.

• Figures on business days lost were not available, but up to 75 percent of the people were unemployed or unable to work because of fighting or gasoline shortages.

• Tourism: Hundreds of millions of dollars in lost revenue and repairs to facilities, but no specific figure available.

• Damage to transportation system: 400 miles of roads; 80 bridges; the international airport.

• Overall damage: At least $3.5 billion to infrastructure; $9.4 billion overall, including clean up of a major oil spill from an Israeli strike on a storage facility at a Beirut power plant.

• Access to water and electricity was severely interrupted. About $180 million in damage to the electricity grid; $70 million to the water treatment and delivery system.

___

ISRAEL:

• Deaths: 157 total — 118 soldiers and 39 civilians.

• Wounded: 860.

• Number of buildings destroyed: no official figures, but tax authorities report more than 6,000 claims for damaged buildings and more are expected as displaced people return home.

• Number of strikes: 3970 Hezbollah rockets, 901 of them inside cities.

• Number of displaced people: 300,000.

• There were no school days lost because they were not in session.

• Many businesses in the north of the country were closed throughout the war. No specific figures were available.

• Tourism: $80 million of lost revenue during the war, many hundreds of millions in projected losses in the future months because of the war.

• Damage to transportation system: Not immediately available.

• Overall damage: Media reports say about $3 billion in damages and lost revenue, but do not give a source for that estimate. Israeli Finance Minister Avraham Hirschon could give no precise figure but said it would be "many billions."

• Access to water and electricity: Isolated water and electricity lines hit; repairs made within 48 hours.

[Erich]

not a good trade off if you want to call it that one way or the other..........

and it isn't over yet the number quoted on the Hezballoh deaths is probably not correct, as many were probably buried in rubble from buildings or vaporized

[syscom3]

A lot of the civilian deaths in Lebanon were Hezbollah fighters dressed as civilians

[Hunter368]

I agree with both you but I have to say the Hezbollah did better than I thought they were going to do before it all started. Not to mention Israel advances were much slower then I was expecting and even the Israel forces and leadership were expecting. Hezbollah is one of the better armed and organized terrorist groups in the world, so maybe its not too surprising after all. It is scary how well these type of organizations are doing vs the best military's in the world (USA, IDF, UK). We (West) are good at killing people (or army's) but not so good with finding who to kill (smart bombs are only so good if you don't know where to aim them). We need better intelligence agentices. IMHO

Do you think the Hezbollah did better than you thought they were going to do?

[Erich]

well evil can be pretty storng, and it's their country, and I say that real loosly. The attacks had been planned for some years and with Syrian and Iranian support dressed up like Hez the IDF probably did not know for certain whom they were firing against except from the direction of enemy fire. Syrian-Iranian unity has been stong for many years and have been stong supporters of Hamas and the PLO besides other mideast Muslim faction throughout the world. I also think of Chechnya

[Erich]

this almost makes me laugh or cry or want to take a dump .....from another forum

France defends sending 200 troops

Manage Alerts | What Is This? PARIS, France (AP) -- French Defense Minister Michele Alliot-Marie on Friday defended France's decision to send just 200 additional troops to reinforce the U.N. peacekeeping force in Lebanon and reiterated that the force needs a clear mandate to operate effectively.

"I can't let it be said or implied that France is not doing its duty in the Lebanese crisis," the minister told French radio RTL in an interview.

"Since the start of the crisis, France is on the frontline and it is the top contributor."

France announced on Thursday it was doubling its contingent to 400 troops. It currently leads the UNIFIL force in southern Lebanon, and its decision-making on its role in a strengthened force has been closely watched.

The announcement from Paris was a disappointment to some at the U.N. who expected more, though it did not dissuade countries from pledging a total of 3,500 troops for the expanded force in a meeting in New York on Thursday.

Alliot-Marie pointed out that France was willing to continue leading the force as it expands from the current 2,000 troops to as many as 15,000.

The strengthened force is expected to work with about 15,000 Lebanese troops to restore peace to southern Lebanon after more than a month of violence between Israeli troops and the Lebanese-based Hezbollah militia.

Alliot-Marie also said she would keep in place 1,700 troops mobilized in the region who in recent weeks evacuated French and other foreign nationals from Lebanon and sent in humanitarian aid from aircraft based on French warships off the Lebanese coast.

France and Italy -- another potential European contributor -- have said the peacekeeping mandate is not explicit enough, and demanded the U.N. set clear rules of engagement for troops bolstering the force.

"You have to tell the troops why they are there. To support the Lebanese army, certainly, but to what extent? In what fields? Secondly, we also need to know what are the material and judicial means at our disposal," said Alliot-Marie.

"You can't send in men and tell them: 'Look at what is going on, (but) you don't have the right to defend yourself or to shoot'," she said.

French officials are particularly concerned about how the expanded force is expected to interact with Hezbollah, the militant group whose fighters who shot nearly 4,000 rockets into Israel during more than a month of fighting with Israeli troops.

Alliot-Marie said troop contributions to the expanded UNIFIL force should come from a great number of countries, both in Europe and the Muslim world.

"What we must absolutely avoid is giving the image of a Western world imposing peace on the Muslim world," she said.

you French are such pussies ...........

[syscom3]

Erich, in this case, laugh.

France is sure showing its colors

[pbfoot]

well its a stupid agreement because the major drafters of the agreement the Americans and France put in a condition about disarming the Hezbollah . Well they weren't very bright because that ain;t gonna happen particularly since the Hezbollah have got to be pretty full of themselves after doing better then any previous attempt at curtailing the Israelis . They should've just let them slug it out and solve the problem once and for all. The Israelis should be and probably are concerned about the Hamas learning from Hezbollah

[syscom3]

The US followed Frances requests.

France renigged on their commitments. They lied to the world.

[Hunter368]

Originally Posted by pbfoot

well its a stupid agreement because the major drafters of the agreement the Americans and France put in a condition about disarming the Hezbollah . Well they weren't very bright because that ain;t gonna happen particularly since the Hezbollah have got to be pretty full of themselves after doing better then any previous attempt at curtailing the Israelis . They should've just let them slug it out and solve the problem once and for all. The Israelis should be and probably are concerned about the Hamas learning from Hezbollah

Sadly I agree

[Hunter368]

Originally Posted by syscom3

The US followed Frances requests.

France renigged on their commitments. They lied to the world.

Syscom what did they renigged on? Just wondering. Thanks

[Erich]

One must also ask if the IDF were in this "thing" in the first place ? seems like a pretty lame campaign by them for any type of supression, just blowing away building and chewing up pay-dirt

as I said it ain't over yet

[pbfoot]

I think what happened is the same as WW2 everybody underestimated the Japanese the Israelis have always pretty much ruled the roost there but this time they got surprised by a well led group with the end result that they won't be feared as much. This is the first time the IDF chief of staff was an Air Force guy and this guy has a LeMay /Harris philosophy