Israel and Palestine

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 08-13-2005, 08:13 AM

They will always find out. The Germans found out about my US citizenship and vise versa.

ariel81 · 08-13-2005, 08:16 AM

well,the argentinian goverment dont

Pisis · 08-13-2005, 08:29 AM

they got more problems with themsleves now

+and: I'm a genius, I decided your real age!

ariel81 · 08-13-2005, 08:44 AM

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 08-13-2005, 08:48 AM

Okay Alright

plan_D · 08-13-2005, 06:56 PM

I can see no one actually read the website I produced to them, or they maybe read the first sentence at best. If you had read the website you would have noticed the sources from which the history of Israel is gained. Let me quote some of the sections which are important to our...discussion;

Quote:

The Historical Record
No ancient Egyptian narrative mentions Hebrew tribes or slaves in their midst except for a reference to some starving tribes that were given land to cultivate in northern Egypt. No record exists that Hebrew tribes wandered through the Sinai desert, nor are there any mementos or memories - no pottery shards, no burnt ash, no bones, no graves, no weapons, nothing. Jericho was not in existence during the era attributed to the Hebrew conquests. No historical record portrays a King David or King Solomon, who had lavish palaces, administered extensive trade or supervised magnificent constructions. There were Hebrew tribes and areas of Hebrew administration - no doubt about that - but no Hebrew Empire that left a significant legacy.

There is no reference in Egyptian sources to Israel's sojourn in that country and the evidence that does exist is negligible and indirect. The few indirect pieces of evidence, like the use of Egyptian names are far from adequate to corroborate the historicity of the biblical account. - Biblical Archaeology, Lee I. Levine, professor at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem.

Similarly ambiguous is the evidence of the conquest and settlement of Canaan, the ancient name for the area including Israel. Excavations showing that Jericho was unwalled and uninhabited, clearly seem to contradict the violent and complete conquest portrayed in the Book of Joshua. ...there is an almost total absence of archaeological evidence backing up the Bible's grand descriptions of the Jerusalem of David and Solomon. Ibid

Note: "Hebrew University in Jerusalem".

Quote:

Archaeological Discoveries

Abraham, the Jewish patriarch, probably never existed. Nor did Moses. The entire Exodus story as recounted in the Bible probably never occurred. The same is true of the tumbling of the walls of Jericho. And David, far from being the fearless king who built Jerusalem into a mighty capital, was more likely a provincial leader whose reputation was later magnified to provide a rallying point for a fledgling nation. Michael Massing, New Torah For Modern Minds, The New York Times, March 9, 2002, reporting on findings of Tel-Aviv university archaeologists.

...anyone attempting to reconstruct the history of Jerusalem through archaeological means would find himself in very difficult straits when it comes to this span of half a millennium ( 500 B.C. to 1 A.D.). The only material available is common to all artifacts, all of them small objects, architectural finds - meaning the remains of buildings-are almost entirely absent. Of course, we hoped that our own dig would change this sorry situation, but our hopes went unfulfilled. Neither our excavations below the Temple Mount nor any of the other digs carried out in the Old City after the Six-Day War uncovered any architectural remains.
Meir Ben-Dove, In the Shadow of the Temple, P.64

...from the tenth century B.C.E. there is no archaeological evidence that many people actually lived in Jerusalem, only that it was some kind of public administrative center...We are left with nothing that indicates a city was here during their supposed reigns (of David and Solomon)...It seems unlikely, however, that this Jerusalem was the capital of a large state, the United monarchy, as described in Biblical texts. Margaret Steiner: It's Not There: Archaeology Proves a Negative, Biblical Archaeology Review, July/August, 1998.

Note: Tel-Aviv University findings.

Israels own universities are proving my points. Go ahead and call them traitors because the bible knows best, of course.

ariel81 · 08-13-2005, 07:24 PM

sorry,but tau doens say that there wasnt a jewsih state,the only say,and that's only a tehory,that there never was a n exodus,the rest is another people,whou no one knows

and sorry,all of those things are only theories,not proven facts
and also,mordechai gijon,CHIEF of archeolgy in tel aviv university DISAGREES with them,and y dont need a web page,y have the gijon's book,rigt here in my library,he belives what is writhyen in the bible,and he already proved in his excelent book,battles of the bible,with chaim herzog,with y already read it like 3 times
(chaim herzog is the CHIEF historian of tzahal)

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 08-13-2005, 07:26 PM

So if one person says jump off a bridge do you jump off a bridge. The same thing can be said about your sources that they are only theories.

ariel81 · 08-13-2005, 07:29 PM

of course,but the cief of the archeology departament a,nd the chief historian of the israel iarmy are far more reliable than some obscure proffesor,who may or may not ,exist

plan_D · 08-13-2005, 07:31 PM

No, they're studies stating that there's a complete lack of evidence of those things mentioned. Obviously you're not reading the quotes properly or trying your best to avoid the truth.

It may be a website but the sources are clearly professors and books.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 08-13-2005, 07:33 PM

Chief Historian of the Israeli Army? Yeah okay.

ariel81 · 08-13-2005, 07:41 PM

yteha ok what>>do you weant his curriculum??
here you it is

chaim herzog

served in brithish army during ww2 and then in the idf ,and was thereafther direcotr of militay inteligence,military governor of the west bank,israel's ambassador to the united nations's and president of israel.his other books include the arab israeli wars and his newly published autobiography,livinmg histori (also the book of battles of the bible,with gichon)

mordechai gichon
who is an expert in the military history,geography and archaeology of israeel in earlier periods,served in the brithish armyin ww2,and in the idf ina variety of senior inteligence post.he has held major academic positions in military history and archaeology in tel aviv university,and has written many articles and excavations reports,and tree full books

also he is emeritus professor of archaeology at tel aviv university

plan_D · 08-13-2005, 07:41 PM

Chief Historian of the Israeli Army? Mind while I roll around the floor laughing.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 08-13-2005, 07:44 PM

I am sorry but that does not prove a thing. Of course he is going to believe all that stuff. He is Jewish. Dont take me wrong I believe most of what you are saying. I am not on Plan_D's side at all on this until I can be proven otherwise but what is to say that he is write. I am sorry, in that same case the bible could just be a book trying to explain things.

Pisis · 08-13-2005, 07:44 PM

Turned water into wine? Wasn't that Jesus?

As I said before, I rely on scientific sources that are trying to shed ligth upon the Torah. You cannot trust each story exactly to the letter, in every story there's a hidden meaning. Small example: Genesis: "In the beginning there was a word" - what does this can mean? A word --> a source code --> a genom?

...etc etc etc. You have to find impleidly...

And whether there was a Jewish kingdom or wasn't... who cares. Today there's a State of Israel, based upon legitimate assets. If would zionist decide that every Jews should live in Uganda, I'd support the Jewish State of Uganda........