A Pilot's Perspective On Barack Obama

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by JugBR

we uses fireguns here, becuse the police doenst works and ctiminals uses ak-47´s. but the most part of kills in brazil are "loose mind crimes"; footbal discussions, parties fights, alcohol drunks, transit discussions because a cars crash. does the police officers work well there in your opinion ? did a restrictive law about firguns could prevent some cases of snippers or psychos firing in schools or something like ? hows the percent of murders made by nom-criminal people by futile reasons ?

It depends in what part of the US you're in. Places with the toughest gun control laws have the most crime, probably because the courts in that part of the country don't deal with criminals well. Where I live we have fairly loose gun laws and violent crime is pretty low.

[Danielmellbin]

Originally Posted by Marcel

Don't start that, Dan, we did have had a lengthy discussion about that a year ago, it's a typical Europe vs. USA issue. There are reasons and while I don't agree with them all, I sometimes see their point.

We have a similar system as yours in Denmark, lots of parties. I usually vote centre parties and tend to lean left or right and vote for them, if I think it's necessary.

Hehe - didn't intend to start a squabble (for once ) - I have my own views on the subject - promise to keep 'em deep and burried (as long as there is no eurobashing in the answer ). But I'll repeat the question - seriuosly: im just curious...

[Njaco]

I could take a stab at it and it may be off-base. Unlike alot of Euro countries that evolved into their goverments, the US started off with a list of "Rights" one being able to bear arms. Over the years the focus has been these rights and numerous issues over these rights have sprouted. Americans hold that idea of the Bill of Rights as their own and everything contained within, so instead of looking at matters in a rational or moral or cultural way, our pride and laws revolve around these Rights. Its not a bad thing but instead of addressing issues rationally you get failed laws and premises. Gun crime is rising so we need to regulate guns. If it rises higher, we need to regulate more. Nothing about the restraints put on parents to bring up children right or all the other ills of society that can't be fixed with just a sweep of the pen.

I may have put this badly but I just feel there would be no need for gun laws if responsibility was taught as an integral core of a person and not an escape clause.

[ToughOmbre]

Originally Posted by Danielmellbin

Regarding the voters age: And the older voters do?

Unless you think 18 year olds are wiser and more knowledgeable than the older more experienced among us.

Originally Posted by Danielmellbin

And the quote all (grownup) conservatives loooove: "If you are 18 and a conservative you have no heart, if you are 30 and you are still a democrat you have no brain"

"the quote all grownup conservatives loooove"? According to who?

Originally Posted by Danielmellbin

Jimmy Carter... duuude - the one time I would have not voted democrat had I been a US citizen

Proves my point about young voters.

Originally Posted by Danielmellbin

Quick curiosity question: Why is it - in your opinion - so important for you and many other Americans to have the right to bear firearms?

We have this thing in America called the Constitution. The first ten amendments are the Bill of Rights. The right to bear arms is the 2nd amendment. Got it?

TO

[Danielmellbin]

Originally Posted by Njaco

I could take a stab at it and it may be off-base. Unlike alot of Euro countries that evolved into their goverments, the US started off with a list of "Rights" one being able to bear arms. Over the years the focus has been these rights and numerous issues over these rights have sprouted. Americans hold that idea of the Bill of Rights as their own and everything contained within, so instead of looking at matters in a rational or moral or cultural way, our pride and laws revolve around these Rights. Its not a bad thing but instead of addressing issues rationally you get failed laws and premises. Gun crime is rising so we need to regulate guns. If it rises higher, we need to regulate more. Nothing about the restraints put on parents to bring up children right or all the other ills of society that can't be fixed with just a sweep of the pen.

I may have put this badly but I just feel there would be no need for gun laws if responsibility was taught as an integral core of a person and not an escape clause.

Thanks man - better explanation than most - if not all - I've heard.

Originally Posted by ToughOmbre

Unless you think 18 year olds are wiser and more knowledgeable than the older more experienced among us.

No and yes - although young voters lack experience older voters often tend to put all too much faith in the myth that history repeats itself and they will many times stick to their beliefs long after they have been proven wrong. I like the combo of young and old - gets the best endresult IMO.

Originally Posted by ToughOmbre

"the quote all grownup conservatives loooove"? According to who?

Erm... common sense unless young cons like being called heartless...

Originally Posted by ToughOmbre

Proves my point about young voters.

Well - about one young voter anyway

Originally Posted by ToughOmbre

We have this thing in America called the Constitution. The first ten amendments are the Bill of Rights. The right to bear arms is the 2nd amendment. Got it?

I know that - I asked why it was important - Njaco answered it very well I believe. Got it?

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Originally Posted by Danielmellbin

I know that - I asked why it was important - Njaco answered it very well I believe. Got it?

I like our answer.

[Messy1]

I believe the right to bear arms is important to most Americans because without that right, we may never had been able to gain our freedom from the British. In a way, it symbolizes to me those that fought for our independence, and also the average man's ability to defend himself, family, and property. To me, the right to bear arms also ensures a man to be able to stand up to a government he feels is unjust.

[JugBR]

Originally Posted by Messy1

To me, the right to bear arms also ensures a man to be able to stand up to a government he feels is unjust.

[renrich]

Messy1, agree 100%, well put. Njaco, I have heard that if off shore drilling were allowed off Santa Barbara they could be producing oil there in a year. As far as environmental concerns with off shore drilling, that is all bunkum. I worked off shore near Louisiana back when technology was not nearly as advanced as now and have fished off the Texas coast for years as recently as last year and am unaware of any environmental problems. In fact the platforms make excellent reefs where fish can congregate and when seen from the beaches they are not unsightly at all but rather interesting to look at.

[Marcel]

Originally Posted by Njaco

I could take a stab at it and it may be off-base. Unlike alot of Euro countries that evolved into their goverments, the US started off with a list of "Rights" one being able to bear arms. Over the years the focus has been these rights and numerous issues over these rights have sprouted. Americans hold that idea of the Bill of Rights as their own and everything contained within, so instead of looking at matters in a rational or moral or cultural way, our pride and laws revolve around these Rights. Its not a bad thing but instead of addressing issues rationally you get failed laws and premises. Gun crime is rising so we need to regulate guns. If it rises higher, we need to regulate more. Nothing about the restraints put on parents to bring up children right or all the other ills of society that can't be fixed with just a sweep of the pen.

I may have put this badly but I just feel there would be no need for gun laws if responsibility was taught as an integral core of a person and not an escape clause.

So you in the US do the same to guns as we do to softdrugs. We "legalised" (well not really) softdrugs to be able to control it and believe it or not, it's somehow working

[Messy1]

Originally Posted by Marcel

So you in the US do the same to guns as we do to softdrugs. We "legalised" (well not really) softdrugs to be able to control it and believe it or not, it's somehow working

I don't know about that comparison, but i firmly believe if the government were to ban all firearms, they only ones who would have them would be the criminals. I mean, that's why they are called criminals, they have broken the law at some point. I cannot understand all the politicans who think banning all fire arms is the key, or the answer. To me it makes no sense. All banning firearms would do is take them away from moral, law abiding people, and leave them less unable to defend themselves. Look at the figures for Washington, DC. Under the gun ban they have been living with, I believe Washington DC had one of the worst crime rates in the nation. Stuff like this makes no sense to me at all.

[JugBR]

Originally Posted by Marcel

So you in the US do the same to guns as we do to softdrugs. We "legalised" (well not really) softdrugs to be able to control it and believe it or not, it's somehow working

duch people are cool !

[Njaco]

So you in the US do the same to guns as we do to softdrugs. We "legalised" (well not really) softdrugs to be able to control it and believe it or not, it's somehow working

Well, not exactly. Idiots here use guns to commit crime. Softdrugs is a crime unto itself.

Ren, my thoughts exactly. Our idiot governor thinks rigs miles away at sea are going to disrupt the tourist industry at the shore because of the "view".

[Marcel]

Originally Posted by Njaco

Well, not exactly. Idiots here use guns to commit crime. Softdrugs is a crime unto itself.

Well, what the Dutch government tries with their policy is that softdrugs will not end up in the criminal circuit. As you know, the drugs trading criminals can be a very big problem. So I think the parallel fits.

Originally Posted by JugBR

duch people are cool !

No, we are not. I think the soft drugs is mostly used here by foreigners and tourists. Of course there are Dutch using it, but the pecentage of users here seems to be lower than in the surrounding countries.

[Danielmellbin]

Yea - softdrugs are usually a major source of income (if not the biggest)for the criminal world. If they can't make money of it they really have a big cash problem. I'm not quite sure where I stand on the legalization issue however. We already drink too much and smoke too many cigarettes here - adding pot and the likes would simply rack our already damaged brains

Messy - I Didn't know that Washington had that law. But since the entire surrounding country can have guns isn't it kindof doomed from the offset?
I mean if Guns where legalized in all but one part of my country I would think that it would increase the "gun-crime" in that part.

(Notice - I'm not debating the issue on guns as such - just the Washington example)