A Pilot's Perspective On Barack Obama

[Njaco]

Completely taken out of context - the meaning of it was that she was a typical white person of her time!

But its not a wise thing to say in public... but hey - it wasn't meant for public either.

Clinton had an affair - why was that anybodies (but him and his wife's) business??

Dan, you don't see anything wrong with this? The character of a man counts for nothing?? I could make the same argument you make for your contention that McCain's age is a factor. So what, he's older. But it is this exact touchy-feely morals that is destroying us.

- and only the one about HIV is wrong.

Which means you believe the others to be right??!!! You can't be serious. I would LOVE to see some white person speak those words about black culture and be defended by black people for saying them. Its ludicrius!

fringe groups? Move-On is one if not the largest liberal organization in the US besides the DNC. Have you checked those two websites and see how they pride themselves on disrupting events. They are known as the liberal equivalent of Rush and all those others, only difference is all those you mention on the conservative side are talking heads. They don't physically go out to disrupt speeches and throw blood or shout down their opponents. Only one party allows that to happen.

and as for Clinton leaving office, one of his last great acts.

President Clinton's Pardons, January 2001

Linda Sue Evans and Susan Rosenberg were pardoned. Weather Underground members, they were imprisoned on weapons and explosives charges.

Almon Glenn Braswell was pardoned of his mail fraud and perjury convictions, even while a federal investigation was underway regarding additional money laundering and tax evasion charges.[14] Braswell and Carlos Vignali each paid approximately $200,000 to Hillary Clinton's brother, Hugh Rodham, to represent their respective cases for clemency. Hugh Rodham returned the payments after they were disclosed to the public.

Susan McDougal, who had already completed her sentence, was pardoned for her role in the Whitewater scandal; McDougal had served 18 months on contempt charges for refusing to testify about Clinton's role.

Dan Rostenkowski, a former Democratic Congressman convicted in the Congressional Post Office Scandal. Rostenkowski had served his entire sentence.

Melvin J. Reynolds, a Democratic Congressman from Illinois, who was convicted of bank fraud, 12 counts of sexual assault, obstruction of justice, and solicitation of child pornography had his sentence commuted on the bank fraud charged and was allowed to serve the final months under the auspices of a half way house. He had served his entire sentence on child sex abuse charges before the commutation of the later convictions.

Roger Clinton, the president's half-brother, on drug charges after having served the entire sentence more than a decade before. Roger Clinton would be charged with drunk driving and disorderly conduct in an unrelated incident within a year of the pardon.[20] He was also briefly alleged to have been utilized in lobbying for the Braswell pardon, among others. However, no wrongdoing was uncovered.

yes sir, a really great man. Proud to have him as my president, protecting terrorists and crooked congressmen and his own family. Yes sir. But I guess since ol Slick Willy didn't start any wars (although he did deploy more troops in peacetime than any other president), wasn't too old and gave us national health care - wait, scratch that last one - he was just one fantastic president. Wait a minute while I choke.

[Danielmellbin]

Originally Posted by Njaco

Dan, you don't see anything wrong with this? The character of a man counts for nothing?? I could make the same argument you make for your contention that McCain's age is a factor. So what, he's older. But it is this exact touchy-feely morals that is destroying us.


Which means you believe the others to be right??!!! You can't be serious. I would LOVE to see some white person speak those words about black culture and be defended by black people for saying them. Its ludicrius!

fringe groups? Move-On is one if not the largest liberal organization in the US besides the DNC. Have you checked those two websites and see how they pride themselves on disrupting events. They are known as the liberal equivalent of Rush and all those others, only difference is all those you mention on the conservative side are talking heads. They don't physically go out to disrupt speeches and throw blood or shout down their opponents. Only one party allows that to happen.

and as for Clinton leaving office, one of his last great acts.

President Clinton's Pardons, January 2001

Linda Sue Evans and Susan Rosenberg were pardoned. Weather Underground members, they were imprisoned on weapons and explosives charges.

Almon Glenn Braswell was pardoned of his mail fraud and perjury convictions, even while a federal investigation was underway regarding additional money laundering and tax evasion charges.[14] Braswell and Carlos Vignali each paid approximately $200,000 to Hillary Clinton's brother, Hugh Rodham, to represent their respective cases for clemency. Hugh Rodham returned the payments after they were disclosed to the public.

Susan McDougal, who had already completed her sentence, was pardoned for her role in the Whitewater scandal; McDougal had served 18 months on contempt charges for refusing to testify about Clinton's role.

Dan Rostenkowski, a former Democratic Congressman convicted in the Congressional Post Office Scandal. Rostenkowski had served his entire sentence.

Melvin J. Reynolds, a Democratic Congressman from Illinois, who was convicted of bank fraud, 12 counts of sexual assault, obstruction of justice, and solicitation of child pornography had his sentence commuted on the bank fraud charged and was allowed to serve the final months under the auspices of a half way house. He had served his entire sentence on child sex abuse charges before the commutation of the later convictions.

Roger Clinton, the president's half-brother, on drug charges after having served the entire sentence more than a decade before. Roger Clinton would be charged with drunk driving and disorderly conduct in an unrelated incident within a year of the pardon.[20] He was also briefly alleged to have been utilized in lobbying for the Braswell pardon, among others. However, no wrongdoing was uncovered.

yes sir, a really great man. Proud to have him as my president, protecting terrorists and crooked congressmen and his own family. Yes sir. But I guess since ol Slick Willy didn't start any wars (although he did deploy more troops in peacetime than any other president), wasn't too old and gave us national health care - wait, scratch that last one - he was just one fantastic president. Wait a minute while I choke.

Firstly - Yes - they are - Hillary has tried a lot of things but never being black. The US was founded on slavery and ethnic cleansing (the term we usually use is colonization - which sounds better to our politically correct minds). That racism runs the country is perhaps an overstatement - but there obviously is alot of it floating around.

Character in a politician? please... first of - no it is not important that a political leader has marital character. Dunno about those pardons - but I have a creapy feeling that most presidents do this. Bush didn't even wait until the latter part of his presidency for his "doubtfull" pardons. Besides its completely beside the point. The point is: What was the state of America when Clinton left office and what will it be when Bush leaves office?

1. After Clinton - A healthy economy and loved abroad.

2. After Bush - Trillions in debt and resented abroad.

I don't get your comparison to the situation with McCain.

As for fringe - in my country I would call a political organisation that has less than 1% of the population as its member as - yes - fringe.

"I would LOVE to see some white person speak those words about black culture and be defended by black people for saying them. Its ludicrius!"

Well see heres the difference - Black people have not discriminated whites for hundreds of years.

Still wondering hows he is a marxist or why people abroad should be afraid....

[JugBR]

curiosity:

why they call mccain "maverick" ?

wouldnt be more apropriated for a presidency candidate being called lincoln or mercury ?


awfull old car

[renrich]

Dan, he is a far left winger so in my book he is a marxist. He has a hard on for whites and so does his wife so he is a racist. Bush inherited from Clinton an economy in recession so you are misinformed about that(or unwilling to face facts) and there had been numerous terrorist attacks involving the US and Clinton had done nothing. You intimate that Bush is a war monger but he went after the terrorists in Afghaninstan and liberated Iraq from a tyrant and every day Iraq is looking more and more like a democracy. If that is war mongering, give me some more. An old saying:"If you want peace, prepare for war." If France and Great Britain had been prepared both mentally and materially to go to war in the 1930s when Hitler had begun his first moves WW2 may never happened. The US has spent over and over much blood, bone and treasure trying to help make the world a free place. Frankly, I grow weary trying to convince a hard core leftist from a little country that has done little except talk for hundreds of years to promote freedom or liberty. You just don't get"it" and you never will.

[JugBR]

Originally Posted by renrich

Dan, he is a far left winger so in my book he is a marxist

does barack obama wants to make the american enterprises property of american state ? does he thinks history of mankind is equal the history of social classes strugle ? does he wants to install a socialist dictatureship ? is he a member of international comunist party? did he cries in the end of "hunt of red october" movie ? he thinks redskull makes good in beat up capitain america ?

if neither of these are true, believe-me he is not marxist.



btw, theres no comunism in american political scenario.

[Njaco]

Ren said it better than I ever could.

does barack obama wants to make the american enterprises property of american state ?

Thats an emphatic YES, Jug. He does.

He also thinks we spend to much on defense so don't start a little war that the bleeding hearts will want the US to intervene in - like say Darfur - because we won't have the means.

does he wants to install a socialist dictatureship ?

The doctrine of the democratic party is socialist in nature when they want the government to control almost every aspect of ones life.

Character in a politician? please... first of - no it is not important that a political leader has marital character.

Marital character? How about any character! He drew the race card not the evil republicans. He accepts terrorists as his close friends, not the bloodthisty republicans. He and his wife are the ones that question this country and just recently decided they were proud to be here.

But Dan if none of this doesn't count when electing a leader, what in your opinion does? Obviously age - of which I can't understand because thats just age discrimination (and thats a major no-no to a liberal - to discriminate).

[Danielmellbin]

Originally Posted by renrich

Dan, he is a far left winger so in my book he is a marxist. He has a hard on for whites and so does his wife so he is a racist. Bush inherited from Clinton an economy in recession so you are misinformed about that(or unwilling to face facts) and there had been numerous terrorist attacks involving the US and Clinton had done nothing. You intimate that Bush is a war monger but he went after the terrorists in Afghaninstan and liberated Iraq from a tyrant and every day Iraq is looking more and more like a democracy. If that is war mongering, give me some more. An old saying:"If you want peace, prepare for war." If France and Great Britain had been prepared both mentally and materially to go to war in the 1930s when Hitler had begun his first moves WW2 may never happened. The US has spent over and over much blood, bone and treasure trying to help make the world a free place. Frankly, I grow weary trying to convince a hard core leftist from a little country that has done little except talk for hundreds of years to promote freedom or liberty. You just don't get"it" and you never will.

You need to read some more:

Carl Marx: The founder of marxism whose 10 main points are arguably:
1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.
2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
3. Abolition of all right of inheritance.
4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
5. Centralization of credit in the hands of the State, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.
6. Centralization of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State.
7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing into cultivation of waste-lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.
8. Equal liability of all to labour. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.
9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country, by a more equatable distribution of the population over the country.
10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labour in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production.

Now which of the above are part of Obama's policy? Furthermore - a socialist country is a society ruled by the workers (communism is a classless society). So no my country is not socialist. People who call european countries socialist make no more sense than the ones who call bush a nazi.

Afghanistan was a fair and righteuos war. Iraq was not. And now that the unwanted people have been ethnically cleansed and 2 million people have fled the country things are going "better" (guess thats what happens when the unwanted are killed or leave).

Oh yea play the WW2 card. France had a larger army and airforce than Germany. As for being mentally prepared. Unless one is a nazi (Hitler: "war is the natural state of man") then none ever is. Being your age - you know very well these reasons and dynamics that led to world war 2 - and that not many are innocent. But do not join the "munich crowd" - its not serious history.

As for my own country - We have been and are contributing as much as we can to the world. But hey if you want to compare a tiny country of 5 million with what is arguably an entire continent with 300 million inhabitants - be my guest - you'll always be a winner. I'm sure the 700 troops of the mechanized infantry (population equal of 42000 US troops) only talk with the taleban in Kandahar - oh no wait - thats right - they dont want to talk.

And yes I get "it" - its called american exceptionalism.

[Danielmellbin]

Originally Posted by Njaco

Ren said it better than I ever could.



Thats an emphatic YES, Jug. He does.

He also thinks we spend to much on defense so don't start a little war that the bleeding hearts will want the US to intervene in - like say Darfur - because we won't have the means.


The doctrine of the democratic party is socialist in nature when they want the government to control almost every aspect of ones life.


Marital character? How about any character! He drew the race card not the evil republicans. He accepts terrorists as his close friends, not the bloodthisty republicans. He and his wife are the ones that question this country and just recently decided they were proud to be here.

But Dan if none of this doesn't count when electing a leader, what in your opinion does? Obviously age - of which I can't understand because thats just age discrimination (and thats a major no-no to a liberal - to discriminate).

First of: discrimination is fine - as long as its fair. How does the missile defense system help darfur again? And as for the rest - paranoia and slander - pure and simple. No serious arguments in it.

It is borderlining sick how much everything is divided into "liberal" and "conservative" - sorry for my harsh choice of words - but IMO it really is.

[Danielmellbin]

Originally Posted by renrich

Bush inherited from Clinton an economy in recession so you are misinformed about that(or unwilling to face facts)

explain these facts that were written in 2001:

Strong Economic Growth: Since President Clinton and Vice President Gore took office, economic growth has averaged 4.0 percent per year, compared to average growth of 2.8 percent during the Reagan-Bush years. The economy has grown for 116 consecutive months, the most in history.

Most New Jobs Ever Created Under a Single Administration: The economy has created more than 22.5 million jobs in less than eight years—the most jobs ever created under a single administration, and more than were created in the previous 12 years. Of the total new jobs, 20.7 million, or 92 percent, are in the private sector.

Median Family Income Up $6,000 since 1993: Economic gains have been made across the spectrum as family incomes increased for all Americans. Since 1993, real median family income has increased by $6,338, from $42,612 in 1993 to $48,950 in 1999 (in 1999 dollars).

Unemployment at Its Lowest Level in More than 30 Years: Overall unemployment has dropped to the lowest level in more than 30 years, down from 6.9 percent in 1993 to just 4.0 percent in November 2000. The unemployment rate has been below 5 percent for 40 consecutive months. Unemployment for African Americans has fallen from 14.2 percent in 1992 to 7.3 percent in October 2000, the lowest rate on record. Unemployment for Hispanics has fallen from 11.8 percent in October 1992 to 5.0 percent in October 2000, also the lowest rate on record.

Lowest Inflation since the 1960s: Inflation is at the lowest rate since the Kennedy Administration, averaging 2.5 percent, and it is down from 4.7 percent during the previous administration.

Highest Homeownership Rate on Record: The homeownership rate reached 67.7 percent for the third quarter of 2000, the highest rate on record. In contrast, the homeownership rate fell from 65.6 percent in the first quarter of 1981 to 63.7 percent in the first quarter of 1993.

7 Million Fewer Americans Living in Poverty: The poverty rate has declined from 15.1 percent in 1993 to 11.8 percent last year, the largest six-year drop in poverty in nearly 30 years. There are now 7 million fewer people in poverty than there were in 1993.

[Njaco]

First of: discrimination is fine - as long as its fair.

I'm speechless.

[Danielmellbin]

Originally Posted by Njaco

I'm speechless.

[ToughOmbre]

Originally Posted by Danielmellbin

First of: discrimination is fine - as long as its fair.

You have got to be kidding! Got to hear you explain that statement!

Originally Posted by Danielmellbin

How does the missile defense system help darfur again?

What does one have to do with the other?

TO

[Danielmellbin]

Originally Posted by ToughOmbre

You have got to be kidding! Got to hear you explain that statement!



What does one have to do with the other?

TO

Simple:

When you dont allow a child to drive a car - you discriminate children - fair discrimination.

When you don't allow a convicted childmolester to work at a daycare center - you discriminate childmolesters - fair discrimination.

When you do not allow a convicted terrorist to join a flightschool - again fair discrimination.

etc etc..

However:

When you discriminate someone because of their skincolour - then there is no fair explanation.


It all started because I was told that I was discriminating McCain because of his age. And yes I am. People in his age group - although experienced - are often too set in their ways and lack new ideas (the man cannot use a computer). While they are great and very neccesary to have as advisors i do not believe that executive posts should rest with them. Furthermore simple health gets to be a very big issue: Although healthy today it can change very very quickly at that age.

Well Njaco or Renrich (forgot who and low on time right now - sorry)said that people who like liberty should be worried - from what I could understand by the following points this was because Obama would lower the military's budget. But all I've been able to see is that he wants to cancel the missile defense system and other extravagant and unneccesary systems. Which suck up too much of the already astronomical 440 billion USD military budget.

[JugBR]

Originally Posted by Danielmellbin

You need to read some more:

Carl Marx: The founder of marxism whose 10 main points are arguably:
1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.
2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
3. Abolition of all right of inheritance.
4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
5. Centralization of credit in the hands of the State, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.
6. Centralization of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State.
7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing into cultivation of waste-lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.
8. Equal liability of all to labour. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.
9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country, by a more equatable distribution of the population over the country.
10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labour in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production.

yes i agree with you. all factories, enterprises, tvs, radios, newspaper, etc... would be property of state. its is just against what usa is. thats why theres no marxists or comunists in american politics.

the democrats are supported by some unions and factories, also some minorities, etc... but it doesnt means they are comunists or left, because its doesnt exists in usa main politics.

theres a comunist party in usa, but they are so small that ill be impressed if they can full a van.

[renrich]

I don't hold it against France and Britain for their reluctance to confront Hitler. Their WW1 experience was fresh on their minds and the socialist government in Britain had disarmed so they needed time to get ready. The simple fact is though that if they had been ready and able to go to war when the Nazis began their schemes WW2 might have been prevented. If Obama is elected we may find ourselves in a similar position 8 years from now. A US military weakened by budget cuts so as to fund social programs and an administration lacking the will to take a stand against a (for example) China deciding to use it's newly built military to further it's economic goals. Dan, I don't have time or the inclination to destroy all of your opinions which you use to support your socialistic (clearly you are at best a socialist) positions. Fact: the US was heading into a recession in 2000. It was called the dot com bubble and it officially began in March, 2001, was exacerbated by the attacks of 9/11 but monetary policy by the Fed and fiscal policy by President Bush and a Repub congress helped make the recession relatively mild and led to 52 months of GDP growth, a record. Look it up if you don't believe me. For your information, we are still not in a recession here in the US as you and your dimocrat buds and the media would like to claim.