Politics and autos

[renrich]

This may not belong in politics but I am sure that politics will enter in the discussion. Someone made the statement that engineering in Britain used to be highly valued. PB said not as far as autos were concerned. I tend to agree with him. My first Brit car was a used 1958 TR3 which was a pretty good ride although quite elemental. What I really wanted was an Austin Healey 100 but could not afford it. Still think that was one of the best looking cars ever. What do youall think?

[freebird]

Originally Posted by renrich

Someone made the statement that engineering in Britain used to be highly valued. PB said not as far as autos were concerned. I tend to agree with him.

What I really wanted was an Austin Healey 100 but could not afford it. Still think that was one of the best looking cars ever. What do you all think?

My dad had an old 1964 MGB, a great car. I think that the racing or rally types {Jaguar, Aston Martin, MGB, Triumph} had a good reputation as solid, well built cars with good road handling. That's where the engineering comes in, not just how they are built & maintainance, but the original designs which emphasized road performance.

[Torch]

Yes the Brits had some cool old cars except for when Lord Lucas the "Prince of Darkness" would show up. Had a friend who had a TR6 and his sister had an MGB with 3/4 race cam worked motor, thing was pretty quick. Always enjoyed an afternoon wrenching with them and killing some beer.

[Kruska]

Honestly?? No way, these British cars were only valued, appreciated and ecstatically promoted by the British and its anglophile friends. Exception being the Americans, who just sometimes happen to go for looks and exotics, and are very relaxed about something or someone that gives them a headache for almost nothing in return.

A friend of mine had a spitfire (car) just trying to get in and out of this car was a joke – I am 183cm. Not to mention another friends MG. Others who drove MG’s or Triumph or Jag E’s were constantly plundering their wallets and live savings in order to spend more time on maintenance, repairs then actual driving and freezing almost to death in winter – yes some people even needed to drive them in Winter despite the total inability of those cars to cope with snow, ice or tempratures. (Mostly due to being in the workshop during the anticipated spring – autumn period).

Just look at sales numbers and the answer will be right in front of you. And a couple of RR and Bentleys and Aston Martins certainly can’t proof a highly valued British engineering in respect to cars.

The French IMO build crappy cars until the mid 90’s, Fiat still does and this is the reason why German cars had it so easy to conquer the lion share of the European car maker market.

To forward that these above mentioned British cars have en esprit, are fascinating, thrilling to drive (if they move) are exceptional in appearance and design is certainly correct to those who go for these assets. But to forward them as proof of highly valued British engineering – I think one really needs to be British to forward such a statement.

Regards
Kruska

[renrich]

The thing that made the TR3 a reasonably good value was that it was simple, uncomplicated and relatively trouble free. I seem to remember it had a Ferguson tractor engine.

[Njaco]

Anything was better than the Fiat 850 Spyder I had!

But here is a question: A few European companies have been merged with US auto companies - like I believe Jaguar and others. Has the quality gone down, up or stayed the same?

[Kruska]

From what I heard and read, these former British cars improved tremendously in quality and reliability, but they all lost their previous ecstatic image due to these changes in solidity and design.

I just loved my Honda 750 F2 in 1978, and now I will still prefer a 70's bike - even though knowing that a present Honda 750 would leave my former F2 looking awfully old and outclassed behind.

But for market reasons Honda would still have to invest and promote into a nowadays market relevant bike. - and not into some niche market that might just not pay off.

Regards
Kruska

[ccheese]

Originally Posted by Njaco

But here is a question: A few European companies have been merged with US auto companies - like I believe Jaguar and others. Has the quality gone down, up or stayed the same?

I think I can speak for both Jaguar and Mazda on this. I worked for a Jag
dealer for six years, and now work for a Mazda dealer. I did and do
warranty submissions for both. Ford bought into both Jag and Mazda.

With both the Jaguar and the Mazda, quality went downhill. I've been away
from Jag for many years, so I don't know if it's improved. However, with
Mazda quality is in the toilet. Remember, I see every warranty repair that
goes through our shop, and we are the largest Mazda dealer in the five
city area known as "Tidewater".

Quality has definately gone down, possibly due to the Ford influence, and
probably because the Mazda's are made in the US. [stepping off soapbox]

Charles

[The Basket]

Originally Posted by Kruska

Honestly?? No way, these British cars were only valued, appreciated and ecstatically promoted by the British and its anglophile friends. Exception being the Americans, who just sometimes happen to go for looks and exotics, and are very relaxed about something or someone that gives them a headache for almost nothing in return.

A friend of mine had a spitfire (car) just trying to get in and out of this car was a joke – I am 183cm. Not to mention another friends MG. Others who drove MG’s or Triumph or Jag E’s were constantly plundering their wallets and live savings in order to spend more time on maintenance, repairs then actual driving and freezing almost to death in winter – yes some people even needed to drive them in Winter despite the total inability of those cars to cope with snow, ice or tempratures. (Mostly due to being in the workshop during the anticipated spring – autumn period).

Just look at sales numbers and the answer will be right in front of you. And a couple of RR and Bentleys and Aston Martins certainly can’t proof a highly valued British engineering in respect to cars.

The French IMO build crappy cars until the mid 90’s, Fiat still does and this is the reason why German cars had it so easy to conquer the lion share of the European car maker market.

To forward that these above mentioned British cars have en esprit, are fascinating, thrilling to drive (if they move) are exceptional in appearance and design is certainly correct to those who go for these assets. But to forward them as proof of highly valued British engineering – I think one really needs to be British to forward such a statement.

Regards
Kruska

Kruska doesn't like something British...shock horror.

The French built crappy cars? Really...which ones?

Which BMW bubble car are you comparing all this too?

[Kruska]

Originally Posted by The Basket

Kruska doesn't like something British...shock horror.

Don't generalize you British imperialist I acctualy stated in another post that I love Aston Martin

The French built crappy cars? Really...which ones?

Besides the Gangster car, Peugeot 404/504(5)? and the Diana every single car they build till the mid 90's. any French on this Forum?

Which BMW bubble car are you comparing all this too?

Well, did you ever hear a German forwarding that the BMW bubble car gives proof of highly valued German engineering ??

Regards
Kruska

[The Basket]

The Citroën DS proves that the French can build cars.

Not every UK car was good.

But Rolls Royce became a standard for engineering excellence. From Jet engines to big luxury cars.

The main problem with the British car industry was lack of investment and poor worker relations. This means that old tech was pushed far too long and workers would rather strike than work.

[Kruska]

Originally Posted by The Basket

The Citroën DS proves that the French can build cars.

I never said they couldn't build cars okay I know what you mean

Not every UK car was good.

Off course not, sorry I just had to

But Rolls Royce became a standard for engineering excellence. From Jet engines to big luxury cars.

Aerospace industry I would certainly agree. Regarding RR cars, there was no engineering excellence at all, just examine the engine, transmission, suspension etc. What they did very well was to upkeep a totally oldfashioned car with remarkable high workmanship quality - which resulted into a monsterous price - but I do admit that there were people who didn't just buy the car because of the price but they acctually liked the ambiente.

The main problem with the British car industry was lack of investment and poor worker relations. This means that old tech was pushed far too long and workers would rather strike than work.

Yes I agree, and one also has to admit that British people just love oldfashioned or lets rather say "Traditional" heritage which in a way makes them loveable.

Regards
Kruska

[Graeme]

Originally Posted by Kruska

Regards
Kruska

Hi Kruska!

Fond memories regards the Peugeot 404. My father bought one in 1971. Ugly and no mod-cons, but that little car just never stopped, and was a maintenance dream. The only problem was spare parts in 'outback' Australia..

[Kruska]

Originally Posted by Graeme

Hi Kruska!

Fond memories regards the Peugeot 404. My father bought one in 1971. Ugly and no mod-cons, but that little car just never stopped, and was a maintenance dream. The only problem was spare parts in 'outback' Australia..

Hello Graeme,

Well believe it or not, my father bought one in 1971 and it was white too. And that fellow was sporty too.

Regards
Kruska

[Njaco]

Just as I suspected Charles.

Speaking of governments and cars, isn't that what partly did in the De Lorean? No approval for a factory?