The Real Threat; Not Communism, but Big Gov't and the Left

[trackend]

Sorry guys that last post was mine I forgot to log on (what a dickhead)

[Blackwatch]

the ideals of the socialists 'paradise on earth' examples:

Soviet Union 1927 Ukraine...1 MILLION people starved to death per Stalins orders because the Urkarin faught back against the communists and Stalin shut off ALL food to the region.

Start socialist polgrams to 'cleanize' the military..ESTIMATED 500,000 soldiers, sailors and airmen (mostly officers) excuted per Stalins orders to insure communist party loyality....(note: due to this the Soviet Union damn near lost to the fascist Germans)

NOTE: more Russians were killed under the socialists before and during WW2 than than from the fascists (10 million dead per the war, civilan and military, 25 million woundered ESTIMATED), the real number of socialist caused deaths within the USSR will never be known, has been estimated at 45 MILLION dead.

Seoul, South Korea (1950) 900,000 men, women and children excuted by NK Army after the fall of Seoul because they were non socialists, US enlised solders excuted from being captured (communists NEVER take enlisted prisoners unless they are high value (ie..SF soldiers, USAF WSO's and pilots).

Communist China: (1953) Chairman Mao's 'Cultural Revoluation: estamated 4-5 MILLION dead per the RED GUARD (teenager communists fanatics).

Laos and Cambodia 1980's....due to the US pullout caused largely inpart by the US communist inspired 'anti-war movement'...a ESTAMATED 4 million dead in Cambodia alone from socialst POL-POT....Laos in unknown in real numbers due to the extermaination of ENTIRE regions of ALL people....

Romamia (1989) under Nicolae Ceauşescu....was killed by mob due to the excesses of his regieme....hundreds of thousands of people were imprisoned for political reasons, there were thousands of abuses, deaths and incidents of torture against political opponents, bringing gloom over Romania.

Socialist Cuba (1950's to present)...ESTIMATED 78,000 men, women, and childeren have died between Cuba and Florida trying to escape the socialist paradise due to starvation and no hope....

More people have been killed by socialists than by WW1 & 2 COMBINED....conservitive estimates are 100,000,000 people dead...that number is probably MUCH higher.....

DerAdlerIstGelandet: where did you get the idea I was speaking detrimental to you? I have been to Europe (mainly Germany and the UK)....what I saw and experienced was what I stated....

plan_D: "And Blackwatch, shut up. You're an irritating turd. You haven't been able to answer me anything but bullsh*t smelling rabble, and frankly it's irritating." .....you shut me up boy.....be my guest....I don't give a flying "fu*k what you think of me.....and be happy you are in the UK....say that to me face to face and I would be VERY unhappy....

SOCALISM is evil, the same as communism (exterme form of socialism) and fascism....

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Blackwatch I am not even going to respond to your post. It is not worth it. Socialism is not Communism and that is why I say you are misinformed. You are building ideas in your head based of things that are not true.

This thread really is pointless. I respect all of your ideas and beliefs whether they are true or not, however some of you do not feel the same way. I think I am going to stop posting in this thread, I would rather post with people in other thread who have a clue.

[Harvard]

Your fight against bigger government should not encompass attacks against people who believe in their system then. You seem to believe people are smart and capable of running a limited system, almost tribal system, but people aren't smart.

Interesting, I haven't attacked anyone, but presented the truth consistently as it is. Do you find the truth offensive?

As far as systems go. The only system that really works is one of small gov't run by the people. If the people are bad ie. greedy, lawless, etc., then they require more gov't control.

[Harvard]

Marconi wrote:

Harvard,
Not all socialistic idias are bad.And not all capitalistic idias are good.But they compensate one another quite well and it would be good if we find that compromise which would suit us the best.

Marconi, I've noticed you are from Ukraine. It sounds to me like you don't really know. Ukraine is just starting out. You might want to learn from other countries where democracy/capitalism (non-socialist) has worked.

I'll say it again, the bigger the gov't the more bureaucrats, the less freedom of choice you have. The more taxes you'll pay, and entrust to more slime ball bureaucrats. The more chiefs you elect to run the show, the smaller the piece of pie you get back Bigger gov't never works. It's proven over and over again every day.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Originally Posted by Harvard

Interesting, I haven't attacked anyone, but presented the truth consistently as it is. Do you find the truth offensive?

No you have prestented what you believe to be the truth and those of us who believe in something different, you tell us that we are wrong. That is why frankly I am tired of this discussion and I am probably going to lock the thread. I am tired of the bitching and whining going on.

Originally Posted by Harvard

As far as systems go. The only system that really works is one of small gov't run by the people. If the people are bad ie. greedy, lawless, etc., then they require more gov't control.

Then why are other places being run just fine? Most people in the world dont have a problem with the things that you are attacking, and everything is just fine. But then again that is not your problem..... Whatever, this is all just dumb.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Originally Posted by Harvard

Marconi, I've noticed you are from Ukraine. It sounds to me like you don't really know. Ukraine is just starting out. You might want to learn from other countries where democracy/capitalism (non-socialist) has worked.

And maybe you should also learn from other countries other than the USA, before you comment, because it sounds to me like you dont know.

Originally Posted by Harvard

I'll say it again, the bigger the gov't the more bureaucrats, the less freedom of choice you have. The more taxes you'll pay, and entrust to more slime ball bureaucrats. The more chiefs you elect to run the show, the smaller the piece of pie you get back Bigger gov't never works. It's proven over and over again every day.

How has it been proven?

Also can you explain to me how you have a bigger piece of the pie. Sorry buddy but you dont know.

[Harvard]

DerAdler wrote:

No you have prestented what you believe to be the truth and those of us who believe in something different, you tell us that we are wrong. That is why frankly I am tired of this discussion and I am probably going to lock the thread. I am tired of the bitching and whining going on.

I haven't heard any argument that successfully counters what I've said.

DerAdler wrote:

Then why are other places being run just fine? Most people in the world dont have a problem with the things that you are attacking, and everything is just fine. But then again that is not your problem..... Whatever, this is all just dumb.

Where? In places w/ higher taxes? In places with bigger gov'ts? Ask yourself this why such high unemployment and unrest in Germany? Is that success? Why did they ground the B-17 in England? Is that success? Why in Sweden nobody can get rich even if they are doctors, etc.?


Der Adler wrote:

How has it been proven? Also can you explain to me how you have a bigger piece of the pie. Sorry buddy but you dont know.

What don't I know? Are you just saying that? What do you really know? It has been proven, It's proven everyday. Go deal with the German gov't and try to get something done. You'll run into many many barriers, and who puts up those barriers? Guess.

If you lock this thread, perhaps you are conceding defeat. A heated debate just means that somebody will win soon. Are you afraid of that?

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Originally Posted by Harvard

I haven't heard any argument that successfully counters what I've said.

Because you have not made a valid point yet? Give me a break!

Originally Posted by Harvard

Where? In places w/ higher taxes? In places with bigger gov'ts? Ask yourself this why such high unemployment and unrest in Germany? Is that success? Why did they ground the B-17 in England? Is that success? Why in Sweden nobody can get rich even if they are doctors, etc.?

See you just proved to me that you have no clue. Well start with Germany. Germanys unemployment is not really any higher than the US. The only areas where it is high is in the former East Germany. This will change soon. Those that are unemployed also atleast have a home and are being fed, and not out of homeless wagons and shelters like in the US. Is it Success in Germany, Yes! What does the B-17 have to do with this, that was in WW2. The Lancaster was better than the B-17 anyhow. That is really stupid argument you have just made. As for Sweden, I could not tell you.

Basically what I am telling you is this. Every system has its advantages and disadvantages. Do I think the US system sucks, NO. As a matter of fact I have said that I prefer the US system. You on the other hand, dont know squat about what is going on in other countries and when others tell you that it aint that bad and that it is okay, and that you should not be afraid of what you really dont know, you tell us we are wrong.

Originally Posted by Harvard

If you lock this thread, perhaps you are conceding defeat. A heated debate just means that somebody will win soon. Are you afraid of that?

No I do not admit defeat, especially to someone who does not respect others ideas, however this thread is going no where.

Second of all ME AFRAID OF YOU? Give me a break. You have not even stated one thing to me that is of really any meaning.

[Blackwatch]

interesting, I see that as long as a opinion goes along with European ideals and attitudes all is blessed....facts mean nothing to socialists or communists....socialism is a pinker form of red communism....but then socialists are good a splitting hairs.....

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Originally Posted by Blackwatch

interesting, I see that as long as a opinion goes along with European ideals and attitudes all is blessed....facts mean nothing to socialists or communists....socialism is a pinker form of red communism....but then socialists are good a splitting hairs.....

No this has nothing to do with European or US here. You seem to forget that I am an American! You are making this into a US/European debate. Is it maybe you that can not handle the fact that others think differently from you?


One more insulting outburst from any member in this thread and I am locking it. This has nothign to do with beliefs it has to do with respecting others. If you can not respect others, go someplace else! This goes for everyone else in this damn thread also. One more insult from anyone, and this thread is locked!

And that goes for calling me a communist again also! I happen to have stated over and over that I prefer the US system. I also happen to be a US citizen in the ****ing US Army and that right there shows that I am no ****ing communist! Just because I happen to live in Germany and see that Socialism is not that bad (which some people could use some real life learning) does not make me a Communism. Again if you dont like that fact, get the hell out of my forum!

[Harvard]

Deradler I agree with you. I think the problem here is that the insulting is causing people to over react and get emotional. This discussion was going pretty well in the beginning, but now it looks like the insulting is destroying the discussion.

[kiwimac]

Blackwatch,

Socialism is not communism. Try taking a look at an encyclopedia or even a dictionary.

Please note the quote from Wikipedia:

Socialism is an ideology with the core belief that society should exist in which popular collectives control the means of power, and therefore the means of production.

In Marxist theory, it also refers to the society that would succeed or supplant capitalism, and would later develop further into communism, as the necessity for the socialist structure would wither away. Marxism and communism are both branches of socialism.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism

Socialism is seen, by Marxists (ie Communists) as an intermediate step from Capitalism to Communism. HOWEVER, socialists do not see themselves in that way as socialism, politically, is much older than Communism.

Socialists hold firmly to "... advocating an egalitarian society, with an economics that would, in their view, serve the broad populace rather than a favored few..." Further socialism sees this egalitarian society as a progressive one, that is, it develops over time as others see the advantage of being treated as a human-being whereas Communism is essentially a revolutionary movement.

Kiwimac

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Good post Kiwi but it will not help. To them that is wrong.

[kiwimac]

I know, but ya gotta try!

Kiwimac