Russia vs. Estonia

Virtual_pilot · 07-12-2007, 03:34 PM

The picture on the first page of the tread is of the "young guard", basicly volentary teenage agitators hired by some political party in Russia. There was a larger picture of that demo, they even had an inflatable tank (!!) with them, along with old soviet uniforms, typographic-quality color protest signs, flags, etc, basicly the whole slew of already prepared agitation material against Estonia. Hardly something a whimpy teenage club could have the money to put together, but boy did they have strong slogans! Most of them violent, with specific advocations of violence against estonian officials and various profanities.

I think there was nothing wrong as such by MOVING the statue along with graves, because if the official military graveyard for estonian nationals is good enough for them, them its not logical to have someone foreign buried in such a central public spot.
There are not many, if any, statues or memorials to estonian soldiers however just like in all ex-soviet countries there are lots and lots of different monuments that time after time serve as a reminder of how useful that war was, and that people should never forget etc etc, however not a single one (until lately, and with private funding) symbolising communist atrocities in those same countries, including Russia.

The whole thing was blown out of proportions, the russian-speaking mobs in Estonia went completely berserk and damaged property worth millions, and stole quite a lot too. The Russian goverment on its side spun this as much as they could since they have a mini-cold war going on with countries that have hastely joined nato and EU and need all the excuses they can muster to use against "evil" Estonia.
The irony of it all, if estonians just wanted to move that statue and have what I would call a moderate hatred of communism`s past and legacy, then boy would the same "pro-statue" people get a slap in their faces if they heard what some russian nationalists have to say about their "own" communists, and such statues!

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 07-13-2007, 11:37 AM

Sorry but I disagree with you. Graves of soldies should remain where they are as a memorial.

Virtual_pilot · 07-14-2007, 03:49 PM

There is a military cemetary for that. Its a BS memorial anyway, for the "unknown soldier" while all who wee buried there were ID`d.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 07-16-2007, 08:20 AM

No it is not a BS memorial! Wheather it is unknown soldiers or not they are soldiers and deserve to rest in peace.

Let me guess you are part of the Waynesboro Baptist Church or whatever the hell they are called?

Virtual_pilot · 07-17-2007, 07:16 AM

Its a red-as-blood-only-communist-deaths-count memorial. They didn`t make any others in that time.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 07-17-2007, 08:23 AM

And you were the weakest link.

Goodbye...

majorwoody10 · 10-14-2007, 03:44 AM

those teens appear to be dressed up in soviet gear , i assume the riots were because many estonians were against touching the graves of their "liberators" ...btw , is it true that your country was named for the killer buds you grow there ? it seems too far north to be good place for growing healthy plants ...wink wink ... id really suggest you all keep a low profile and leave their crap alone because if the russians do come back all your going to get from the west is a bunch of bitching and moaning and some pointless sanctions ....

comiso90 · 10-14-2007, 03:58 AM

[quote=Cyrano;244195]I felt I have to report about what is happening 150km south.

A big political conflict is emerging between Estonia and Russia. /QUOTE]

I don't take this lightly. Do u have any updates?

America is preoccupied with Gulf shenanigans... ..

We cant let Eastern Europe slip!
.

david johnson · 10-14-2007, 04:50 AM

re the oregon county:

it's still 'king' county because both guys were named king. did it make too much sense to just amend a document or issue an official statement recognizing the new namesake?

did the public vote on this?

re estonia:

it's their country. they'll for sure do as they wish and not suffer from what any of us think.

dj

majorwoody10 · 10-14-2007, 06:28 AM

adler ,if the japs won in china then had a monument in the city square of nanking to those who liberated the chinese people from the evil warlord chang kei shek and later the chinese win freedom wish and to re entiere the japanese dead elswhere ,would that not be their right ..suppose there was a shrine and graveyard of ss men in front of the govt buildings in warsaw or the ukraine ..the estoniens dont percieve the stalinists as great liberators but as soul crushing oppressors who murdered way more estonians than the nazis ever did ..

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 10-14-2007, 03:05 PM

I am a firm believer that war dead are not to be disturbed unless they are in danger of being destroyed in any way by things that we can not control.

majorwoody10 · 10-15-2007, 12:53 AM

those dead russians prolly wont even know their being moved alder ,whereas the liveing people of estonia have to be insulted by a great hypocracy which is planted right in front of their faces every day . respect dead soldiers of all nations but in the usa we have teams of specialists who go places overseas and recover dead americans who have resting by their airplanes wreckage for sixty years ,a yankee doughboy was found by a french road crew just two years ago , he had been sleeping in france since 1917 now he is finally done with being "over there " and is back home amongst his buddies at arlington va ...a hiker found a bomber crew in the ca sierras last year, mia on a training mission since 1943 ...their aged gray haired siblings were happy to have their long lost big brothers back ,forever young , slim and 22.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 10-15-2007, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by majorwoody10

those dead russians prolly wont even know their being moved alder ,whereas the liveing people of estonia have to be insulted by a great hypocracy which is planted right in front of their faces every day .

You believe as you wish. As a former US Army soldier I believe in not disturbing the war dead that have allready been laid to rest. If you believe in doing so that is your right. I dont...

Quote:

Originally Posted by majorwoody10

respect dead soldiers of all nations but in the usa we have teams of specialists who go places overseas and recover dead americans who have resting by their airplanes wreckage for sixty years ,a yankee doughboy was found by a french road crew just two years ago , he had been sleeping in france since 1917 now he is finally done with being "over there " and is back home amongst his buddies at arlington va ...a hiker found a bomber crew in the ca sierras last year, mia on a training mission since 1943 ...their aged gray haired siblings were happy to have their long lost big brothers back ,forever young , slim and 22.

Yes I know that the US does that. I am an American...

What you just described is something different though and I completely agree with bringing them home. I believe that any countries war dead that are found where they were killed should be brought home and given a proper military burial. Once they are buried however they should be left in peace.

majorwoody10 · 10-23-2007, 05:13 AM

its kida funny alder ,here in kelseyville ca there is an old pioneer graveyard with many graves from 1870 to 1930 with stones marked with a mans birthdate ,dod ,name and rank and unit in the GAR .ie. john whipple , pvt .co. b 53rd iowa infantry ..a guy who , while he was in , prolly considered his life as a pivate in mr lincolns army , endless drudgery ,hardship ,homesickness and persecution sprinkled with short bouts of sceaming , pants pissing terror ..and pineing and praying for the blessed day of his emacipation from the gad damned army ....and at the end of his life ,three thousand miles from maryland ,50 years later , its the only thing besides his name that appears on that weatherd mossy stone...and every veterans grave is the same ...sgt , co .d such and such nebraska artillery , capt c company 197th inf aef 1917 -18 ..people are funny creatures ...