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Russia vs. Estonia

Politics Discuss Russia vs. Estonia in the Current forums; I felt I have to report about what is happening 150km south. A big political conflict is emerging between Estonia ...


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Old 04-27-2007, 11:30 AM   #1
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Russia vs. Estonia

I felt I have to report about what is happening 150km south.

A big political conflict is emerging between Estonia and Russia. In 1947 the russians put up a "statue of the liberators" to the center of Estonian capital, Tallinn. From an Estonian point of view, the russian liberation was more like the beginning of 50 years of communist occupation. So now the Estonian parliament is going to remove the statue, excavate the site, and move both the statue and the possible remains of russian soldiers to a military graveyard. At the moment it they are right in front of the national library.

Surprise surprise, the ruskies aren't very pleased. National extremists are raging crazy. Due modern adn soviet russian history Estonia joined the USSR willingly. As a matter of fact it was the opposite. In 1939 Estonia had pretty much same options as Finland, but they had no muscle to fight, and their terrain was much harder to defend against russia. Plus they had 25 000 russian soldiers in closed military bases within the country. In 1940 president Pats was prisoned and taken to a gulak, where he later died.

So when the Germans occupied Estonia during Barbarossa, they were mostly considered as liberators and many estonian men joined the Waffen SS to fight against the USSR. Many others joined finnish troops.

Last night the statue was removed. Preceeding riots at the site took at least one life and many others were injured. The russian duma is calling estonians "facist admirers" and most russians see Estonia as an ungrateful nation. Indeed, ungrateful of slavery!

I think all this is very worrying. Russia is again trying to regain superpower status, renewing its military and doing stuff like this. Lying about history. Estonians have the right to remove visible marks of foreing occupation and to say what they please, but Russia seems to think otherwise.




The statue.


Rioting in Tallinn.


Russian teens demonstrating at the Estonian embassy in Moscow.
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Old 04-27-2007, 11:40 AM   #2
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I don't profess to have any insight into this affair, Cyrano. Good post. But I will say that history is history. And I guess to display my ignorance, but what is the bit deal with just keeping the statue and graves where they are and recognize it for what it truly symbolizes. I have a personal distaste for those who wish to ignore/hide/change the past.

Here in Washington State, I live in King County. The county was named after a man whose background was apparently tainted with some sort of relation to slavery. We recently spent $300,000 replacing letterheads, signs, gov't placards, equipment, etc and changed King County to now be named after Martin Luther King. Political correctness is rampant and is self destructive.
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Old 04-27-2007, 01:37 PM   #3
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Totally agree with Matt 308. As the majority of Russians I have almost physiological hatred of communism, but launching a war against graves... Let the dead bury their dead.
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Old 05-01-2007, 03:39 PM   #4
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Wow

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt308 View Post

Here in Washington State, I live in King County. The county was named after a man whose background was apparently tainted with some sort of relation to slavery. We recently spent $300,000 replacing letterheads, signs, gov't placards, equipment, etc and changed King County to now be named after Martin Luther King. Political correctness is rampant and is self destructive.
You gotta be kidding!! I was born there, in Ballard.
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Old 05-02-2007, 11:00 AM   #5
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Then you must know how go**amn ridiculous the King County Council has become.
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Old 05-05-2007, 01:13 AM   #6
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No but I'll take your word for it. I escaped to Nevada when about 6. Now here I am in Oregon and its just as bad. Freaking libs from CA are running from their home lairs and denning up here. Won't be long and the entire Pacific NW will be Californicated.
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Old 05-07-2007, 02:32 PM   #7
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Yep. Just had a conversation today with a gentle explaning that he was out shooting along a Virginia stream. They were tying popcans to fishing line, floating them down the creek and shooting them.

I told him you can get fined big time for doing that here. You are not allowed to shoot within 150yds of moving or standing bodies of water. Now I know that is a Kali law if I ever heard one. We do what ever Kalifornia does, just 10 years later.
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Old 05-07-2007, 02:37 PM   #8
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"You are not allowed to shoot within 150yds of moving or standing bodies of water. "

Why on earth?
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Old 05-07-2007, 02:41 PM   #9
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Possiblity of lead pollution. See this is what happens when tree huggers and global warming nuts make laws.
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Old 05-07-2007, 02:44 PM   #10
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Well I understand if it is forbidden to build shooting ranges near water, but forbidding hunting / random shooting is just insane.

Last edited by Cyrano : 05-07-2007 at 02:52 PM.
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Old 05-07-2007, 08:27 PM   #11
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Yeeeaaaahhhh...
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Old 05-08-2007, 01:02 AM   #12
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Its called a ricochet. Bullets have a tendency to bounce off water and go a long long way, possibly taking out a child or 2.
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Old 05-08-2007, 04:04 AM   #13
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Yes true. Bullets may ricochet. Off water. Off rocks. Off trees...
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Old 05-08-2007, 04:33 AM   #14
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Off of the Man of Steel, Adler....

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Old 05-08-2007, 12:37 PM   #15
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You must have the day off. You're delusional.
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