Russia withdraws from arms treaty

The Basket · 07-21-2007, 06:28 PM

Blackjacks and Bears too.

The Uk trains its own pilots.

Hunter 368...America didn't enter world war II until 7th Dec 1941...and europe until 11th Dec. The UK was in it since 3rd Sept 1939...with our Canadian allies of course!

ToughOmbre · 07-21-2007, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Basket

America didn't enter world war II until 7th Dec 1941...and europe until 11th Dec.

And good that we did. Otherwise your children would be "goose-stepping" to school every morning.

davparlr · 07-21-2007, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkloby

I would definitely like to see European nations take a more active interest in their own defense.

Do you know how many European nations are incapable of even training aviators??? Tons of them pour through American flight schools.

I guess I don't really have issue with this. If I was a smaller nation like most of Europe, I would want to send my pilots to the US for training. Wouldn't you rather learn to drive from a Bondurant Driving School or the local go-cart track? Most nations just could not afford the training structure and environment the US provides.

Now, I do have a problem with the defense budgets of most nations. They are quite willing for the US to maintain military dominance, while complaining when we use it for anything other than with their blessings.

Hunter368 · 07-23-2007, 10:45 AM

[quote=The Basket;264271]

Hunter 368...America didn't enter world war II until 7th Dec 1941...and europe until 11th Dec. The UK was in it since 3rd Sept 1939...with our Canadian allies of course![/QUO

How does that relate to anything I said?

drgondog · 07-23-2007, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bomber

Who lives in a free market ?

You ?

With all the trade tarriffs between the US and EU and the job protectionism that goes on...

A free market.. say like Microsoft that sells developer rights to companies so as to make products... once the product is successfull, they remove the delevelopment rights and the company is faced with either watching it's share stock plumet or sell out to.... Microsoft, who just come in with an offer...

With this kind of free market, who'd want a cartel ?

It's the 21st century yet the gap between the rich and poor is just getting wider... and that's the problem with a 19th century brand of capatilism, it's about dog eat dog... oh and yes point to the token person that rises from the geto as an example of how anyone can be successful. But that\s just an easy way to distract the eye from the other millions traped in poverty.

It's the 21st century and I'm embarrassed... I think history will take a very dim view on what we do today

Simon

Gotta ask - specifics please!

Say you are god for a day and intend to a.) correct all the "wrongs" and b.) create the 'correct' world.

What is your vision for the role of government, the role of free enterprise, the manner in which governments enforce the rule of law globally.

One boundary condition - do not refer to the United Nations model for any of the above.

Regards,

Bill

bomber · 07-25-2007, 07:29 AM

Bill... with all due respect I'm not so stupid as to belive that this forum is adult enough to have a sensible debate.... look half a dozen posts up at the arrogant attitude exhibited by a poster with regards 'goosestepping'.

With regards Europe looking after itself...

Do we really think that's the issue ? personally if I was an American I'd rather drop battlefield Nukes in Europe than in my own country, so to that aim you ensure that the battlefield is in Europe.

And it's not just Russia that uses a perceived strong external enemy to keep their people under control.

Personally I'm not a great fan of being told what is right and wrong, what is the law and what isn't by a country that disregards all that they've said if it's in their best interests to do so.

I respect the Americans of the 1940's who came over to the UK to fight for a just cause... but I don't see the present cause as just, just blind hatred and revenge.

Simon

mkloby · 07-25-2007, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bomber

Bill... with all due respect I'm not so stupid as to belive that this forum is adult enough to have a sensible debate.... look half a dozen posts up at the arrogant attitude exhibited by a poster with regards 'goosestepping'.

With regards Europe looking after itself...

Do we really think that's the issue ? personally if I was an American I'd rather drop battlefield Nukes in Europe than in my own country, so to that aim you ensure that the battlefield is in Europe.

And it's not just Russia that uses a perceived strong external enemy to keep their people under control.

Personally I'm not a great fan of being told what is right and wrong, what is the law and what isn't by a country that disregards all that they've said if it's in their best interests to do so.

I respect the Americans of the 1940's who came over to the UK to fight for a just cause... but I don't see the present cause as just, just blind hatred and revenge.

Simon

Bomber - serious theoretical question. I'm not referring to Iraq - just a blanket question. Remove all inference to any nation you think I may be describing. If a leader is performing unspeakable acts of cruelty, including wholesale rape and murder, of his own people is it right to remove that individual from power? Does the world stand by and watch such horrors occur, or is this leader justified by the theory of national sovereignty to govern as he sees fit?

Also, regarding your comment about respecting Americans - that's rather unnecesary. Are you insinuating that you respect the Americans from WWII, but not those that serve today? The Americans serving in the military today are the same as those that served back in the 1940s. There's no reason to disrespect them even if you don't agree with the war.

davparlr · 07-25-2007, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bomber

Do we really think that's the issue ? personally if I was an American I'd rather drop battlefield Nukes in Europe than in my own country, so to that aim you ensure that the battlefield is in Europe.

So... you want us to wait until enemies of the west, whether Soviets or religious fascist or other, overcome Europe and began to attack us before we retaliate?

Quote:

I respect the Americans of the 1940's who came over to the UK to fight for a just cause... but I don't see the present cause as just, just blind hatred and revenge.

Hmmm, according to your first comment, we should have waited until the Germans invaded our land so we would be fighting in Europe?

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 07-27-2007, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkloby

Bomber - serious theoretical question. I'm not referring to Iraq - just a blanket question. Remove all inference to any nation you think I may be describing. If a leader is performing unspeakable acts of cruelty, including wholesale rape and murder, of his own people is it right to remove that individual from power? Does the world stand by and watch such horrors occur, or is this leader justified by the theory of national sovereignty to govern as he sees fit?

Agreed with what you are getting at. Unfortunatly too many people only care about what happens in there backyard.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkloby

Also, regarding your comment about respecting Americans - that's rather unnecesary. Are you insinuating that you respect the Americans from WWII, but not those that serve today? The Americans serving in the military today are the same as those that served back in the 1940s. There's no reason to disrespect them even if you don't agree with the war.

Amen brother...