Russia withdraws from arms treaty

[v2]

Russia on Saturday suspended its participation in a key European arms control treaty that governs deployment of troops on the continent, the Kremlin said, a move that threatened to further aggravate Moscow's already tense relations with the West.
President Vladimir Putin signed a decree suspending Russia's participation in the Conventional Forces in Europe Treaty due to "extraordinary circumstances ... which affect the security of the Russian Federation and require immediate measures," the Kremlin said in a statement.

Putin has in the past threatened to freeze his country's compliance with the treaty, accusing the United States and its NATO partners of undermining regional stability with U.S. plans for a missile defense system in former Soviet bloc countries in Eastern Europe.

more: Russia withdraws from arms treaty - CNN.com

[ToughOmbre]

Make no mistake, Putin is one of the bad guys.

[syscom3]

I do question the logic of placing a missle defense site in eastern Europe.

Why go out of your way to piss off the Russians?

[ToughOmbre]

Originally Posted by syscom3

I do question the logic of placing a missle defense site in eastern Europe.

Why go out of your way to piss off the Russians?

Screw the Russians! If we put an OFFENSIVE missile site in Europe, then they can bitch.

[Virtual_pilot]

Originally Posted by ToughOmbre

Make no mistake, Putin is one of the bad guys.

And people who wage war in the middle east for no good reason and no good result are good guys?

Screw the Russians!

Only if you want to play post apocalyptic games, only in reality.

[ToughOmbre]

Originally Posted by Virtual_pilot

And people who wage war in the middle east for no good reason and no good result are good guys?

YOU been listening to Air America? That's why you think we, the USA, are the bad guys? When were you born, five minutes ago?

Do us a favor and stick to your video games. You're clueless!

[Gnomey]

All part of Putin's posturing to gain respect/prestige. They can't more any vehicles into the region for another 150 days or something (about 6 months anyway). He may of pulled out of it but it remains to be seen whether he actively does put heavy forces back in the region. 6 months is a long time and I suspect that he won't do it (whilst I don't see the West/USA backing down). Putin is trying to posture as if Russia is a Superpower again (which it isn't --> yet again anyway). Yes Putin isn't a particularly nice guy (name one ex-KGB guy who is nice) but he evidently wants something (the removal of the missile sites) and will go to almost any length to achieve it --> I suspect he will put economic pressure on Poland/Czech Republic if they and the States continue with the current plans.

[mkloby]

Originally Posted by Virtual_pilot

And people who wage war in the middle east for no good reason and no good result are good guys?

You drink a lot of kool-aid, don't you? Sounds like you're one of the run of the mill "I hate America, I hate the military, communism rules" crowd.

Why don't you actually try a rational post about how the United States is evil besides just insinuating that we are the bad guys for war mongering - which you onviously knew was going to piss people off.

[bomber]

Originally Posted by mkloby

Why don't you actually try a rational post about how the United States is evil besides just insinuating that we are the bad guys for war mongering - which you onviously knew was going to piss people off.

It didn't piss me off....

I for one would much rather my own country turned it's attention inwards and tried to solve internal problems than attempt to distract us by pointing the gun at other countries peoples, and shouting 'it's their fault !'

I'd like a better health service
improved pension provisions for the old
and integrated rail/road transport system
A greater sense of national pride... gained from within and not by shooting someone from another country, in his own country.

I'd like to think we didn't invade another country.. and then whitewashed the death of the weapons of mass destruction inspector in a field.

But I'm British.... and live in a democracy where I'm told to belive my vote counts.

Simon

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Originally Posted by Virtual_pilot

And people who wage war in the middle east for no good reason and no good result are good guys?

Oh brother not you again.....

Go live in the virtual world and play your video games.

What flavor is your window by the way?

[mkloby]

Originally Posted by bomber

It didn't piss me off....

I for one would much rather my own country turned it's attention inwards and tried to solve internal problems than attempt to distract us by pointing the gun at other countries peoples, and shouting 'it's their fault !'

I'd like a better health service
improved pension provisions for the old
and integrated rail/road transport system
A greater sense of national pride... gained from within and not by shooting someone from another country, in his own country.

I'd like to think we didn't invade another country.. and then whitewashed the death of the weapons of mass destruction inspector in a field.

But I'm British.... and live in a democracy where I'm told to belive my vote counts.

Simon

Bomber - I'm not surprised one bit that it didn't. While I completely disagree with your viewpoint - at least you provide a basis for debate and disagreement rather than just taking pot-shots.

BTW - if you would like all those things, why not seek to pursue them in a free market. You seem to have a good job, and would be more than capable of exceeding the level of accomodation offered by the government services you listed above. See the "Taxes" thread; I'd like to see your take on what was said there.

[bomber]

Originally Posted by mkloby

BTW - if you would like all those things, why not seek to pursue them in a free market.

Who lives in a free market ?

You ?

With all the trade tarriffs between the US and EU and the job protectionism that goes on...

A free market.. say like Microsoft that sells developer rights to companies so as to make products... once the product is successfull, they remove the delevelopment rights and the company is faced with either watching it's share stock plumet or sell out to.... Microsoft, who just come in with an offer...

With this kind of free market, who'd want a cartel ?

It's the 21st century yet the gap between the rich and poor is just getting wider... and that's the problem with a 19th century brand of capatilism, it's about dog eat dog... oh and yes point to the token person that rises from the geto as an example of how anyone can be successful. But that\s just an easy way to distract the eye from the other millions traped in poverty.

It's the 21st century and I'm embarrassed... I think history will take a very dim view on what we do today

Simon

[syscom3]

Originally Posted by bomber

Who lives in a free market ?

You ?

With all the trade tarriffs between the US and EU and the job protectionism that goes on...

A free market.. say like Microsoft that sells developer rights to companies so as to make products... once the product is successfull, they remove the delevelopment rights and the company is faced with either watching it's share stock plumet or sell out to.... Microsoft, who just come in with an offer...

With this kind of free market, who'd want a cartel ?

It's the 21st century yet the gap between the rich and poor is just getting wider... and that's the problem with a 19th century brand of capatilism, it's about dog eat dog... oh and yes point to the token person that rises from the geto as an example of how anyone can be successful. But that\s just an easy way to distract the eye from the other millions traped in poverty.

It's the 21st century and I'm embarrassed... I think history will take a very dim view on what we do today

Simon

The countries with the highest rates of poverty tend to be one of the following:

1) Corrupt beyond belief
2) No natural resources and little if any, higher education
3) Followed economic paths of communism or socialism
4) Prone to blame others for their problems and not take an inward look at themselves.
5) Failed states to begin with.

[mkloby]

Originally Posted by bomber

Who lives in a free market ?

You ?

With all the trade tarriffs between the US and EU and the job protectionism that goes on...

A free market.. say like Microsoft that sells developer rights to companies so as to make products... once the product is successfull, they remove the delevelopment rights and the company is faced with either watching it's share stock plumet or sell out to.... Microsoft, who just come in with an offer...

With this kind of free market, who'd want a cartel ?

It's the 21st century yet the gap between the rich and poor is just getting wider... and that's the problem with a 19th century brand of capatilism, it's about dog eat dog... oh and yes point to the token person that rises from the geto as an example of how anyone can be successful. But that\s just an easy way to distract the eye from the other millions traped in poverty.

It's the 21st century and I'm embarrassed... I think history will take a very dim view on what we do today

Simon

Nice - I should have figured so much as a smart-mouth response from you.

I was referring directly to your post - specifically regarding your want of better healthcare and pension. If you are unsatisfied with them - why not push to be able to procure your own services without having to have the gov't adjust those services. Procure them in a free market. If you want to be technical, which you apparently do, I can't imagine these markets going without any regulation, so they will NOT BE laissez-faire free markets! Being able to plan your own retirement without the gov't taking your money and planning it for you. Being able to procure your own health insurance and care. Microsoft has NOTHING to do with that. Neither do trade barriers between trading blocs. Was that your purpose - to just dodge the whole issue and ramble on about something irrelevant?

Regarding 19th century capitalism, the gulf between rich and poor, - could you be making more cliche remarks? Look at the legislation passed in the US since the 19th century and you'll find a ton of regulation. I'm not saying inadequacies don't exist - they definitely do.

Show statistics depicting the widening gap between rich and poor. That also requires a definition of each term as well. Do something, please, besides sounding like the talking points of a coffehouse socialist.

Here's a more applicable thread, since that's way off topic - if you would like to reply instead of posting a talking points memo.
http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/pol...es-8738-3.html (Taxes)

[Erich]

well this statement should piss off a few here..............but do I really care ? NO

as many of my German vets have said "never trust the Russians" {Putin } has a secret ajenda and is looking for the mid-east oil seriously to appease his hunger.

all I can say those of you in Eruope and us is to watch our back sides.