Strike Mission: Iran

ndicki · 10-26-2006, 01:34 PM

Doesn't matter if you miss a few - you just have to create a sufficient vacuum that they start in on each other; it may even be a good idea to miss a few, since otherwise all you've got are the ineffectual types who are not able to profit from the situation to carve themselves a bit of empire!

Matt308 · 10-26-2006, 04:03 PM

Interesting ideas and discussion. Note that the objective allows for delay of Iran's nuke program as acceptable. Not ideal, but acceptable. I too think that total destruction of their nuke program is unrealistic. Isreali military has stated such too. So what does a delay buy us?

Anyone contemplating quick strike with reliance upon intel and forced socio-economic changes? Supposedly there is quite a bit of dissatisfaction of Iranian moderates with their gov't. But would your plan rely upon the sheople rising up?

There are some conventional weapons under development that could reach that deep. We have the 5,000lb class BLU-122 in service now. But under test is the 30,000lb class MOP (not the MOAB tested in Florida). Unclassified releases put penetration at 200+ft of alternating layers of concrete, sand and earth.

Kiwikid · 10-27-2006, 02:40 AM

Sorry Syscom3, but ground invasion will be a nightmare and lacks public support. You want to drive a wedge between the Iranian people and their Government. A general invasion threatens the entire population and strengthens the mullahs.

Attack the problem itself because:

(1) You remove the problem.
(2) Serve notice what to expect if they restart it.
(3) Prove to the Iranian people that the Mullahs are not infaliable.
(4) Warn North Korea that USA is deadly serious.
(5) Involve the least innocents
(6) Bigger the bang, the more the deterrent to retribution.

Quote:

But worry not you are talking to some of the world's greatest minds.

Were you talking about me by any chance ?

K9KIWI what is it with this place that there are so many Kiwis here ?

Hey you don't know the half of it. I am a former anti nuclear protestor. Not just rank and file either. I was on the formative committee of a protest group to prevent visits of Nuclear warships. I went out with the Peace squadron to blockade the harbour against the first visit of CGN35 USS Truxtun.

By 1981 I was working for the Ministry of Defence and on it's second visit was given a guided tour around the Truxtun and it's Reactor room !

I oposed the purchase of Pakistan embargoed F-16s and advocated instead either re-engining RNZAF's A-4K Skyhawks to Singapore A-4S standard, or purchasing surplus USN F/A-18s. These were available just as cheaply as the f-16s and offered commonality with the RAAF Hornets.

I lobbied Helen Clark before the 1999 elections, but felt betrayed by her when she canned the whole strike wing. She had no mandate... Had concealed her intentions during elections and proved to me that she is dishonest and unethical.

I have despised that woman ever since. She does not speak for me.

Moreover, I used to be in a relationship with a lady who worked in her office before she became Prime Minister. My companion made observations to me which leave me in no doubt that there must be truth behind persistent rumours that she is in a Lesbian relationship with Heather Simpson and that she is allegedly in a sham marriage with her allegedly gay husband. A husband incidentally, who featured in a video on election night french kissing a known gay doctor. That is not even addressing the claim that he may have been arrested in a public toilet recently in the States performing an allegedly lewd act with another male.

If true then the crime is not that she may be gay, but rather the crime is that this woman appears to be a liar and yet holds the highest job in the land.

Normally if a woman put me across her knee and spanked me, I'd say groovey. If Auntie Helen did so, I would be revolted.

Nuke the pricks at the enrichment plants with ground penetrating munitions is what I say.

They say cut the head off the snake. Hit the enrichment plants and save lives.

ndicki · 10-27-2006, 10:02 AM

That post encourages me no end - an CND activist who has seen the light! Welcome to the Real World, mate! Seriously!

(Hiroshima was a nuclear-free zone, too!)

Matt308 · 10-27-2006, 12:42 PM

Jesus, that must have been cathartic. You're born again.

Kiwikid · 10-27-2006, 05:40 PM

Quote:

an CND activist who has seen the light! Welcome to the Real World, mate! Seriously!

Uhmmm comparing apples and oranges mate... The world was a seriously different place in the Regan era and there was some dangerous brinksmanship then with the SS-20 missiles in USSR and Cruise/Pershing 2 in Europe. There was also the MX Peackeeper missile and the Cold war was getting awful hot.

I don't regret what I did. It was the right thing at the time. It is no longer relevant to the world situation and that is where NZ is so far behind the eight ball now in it's pacifist anti-nuclear beliefs.

In a democracy you have to claim your rights to speak out. The world is changed since the collapse of the Soviet Union and fall of the Berlin Wall. Had the SALT negotiations continued and had the Soviet Union not broken up, we might not now have the danger of terrorist Third World states with Nuclear weapons. Russia spurred the growth of Islamic terrorism by going into Afghanistan.

Because the world is so drastically changed now, the approach can no longer be the carrot... It has to be Truman's big stick.

I am by the way, a critic of going into Iraq. I think that was dumb. It now makes it even harder for USA to have credibility dealing with Iran which is the real enemy.

But I have never been a pacifist. I am proud my dad was at Arromanches on D-Day. I believe any country has a right to fight to protect itself and it's interests. Too many people died in WW2 for rights which pacifists take for granted and don't understand, or perhaps do so very naively.

I differ from pacifists, because I am not wedded to pacifisim. When some prick is determined to kill you, or your loved ones you have to pick up that gun or drop that bomb.

If USA had an intelligent decisive President, Iran's enrichment plants would be smouldering rubble by now.

GW Bush in view is not that man. He has never been in action. has no empathy for the fighting man. No real leadership qualities, in my view.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 10-28-2006, 01:48 PM

I find somethings difficult to agree with in that last post. I will leave it at that though.

k9kiwi · 10-28-2006, 07:07 PM

KiwiKid.

I have seen it from both sides of the fence.

Mid 80's I took part in our last Mutual ANZAC exercise with Aussie and American forces. We were out of that thanks to Labour and David Lange within weeks after it finished.

As a piece of humour for you, remember when D Lange took off just after being elected and took an AF jet all around Africa. AF Police were detailed to Airplane Security.

Just after take off, D Lange strolls back, looks at AF Police and says in a big voice so the media can hear, "I hope we are going to get good security on this trip."

A political decision had been made by Labour that said AF Police were NOT to have any side arms, gaurd an airplane in Africa without even a 9mm pistol, Yeah Right.

My Mate (nickname of Blow Fly) looks up at Lange and replied "Stuffed if I know mate, I voted National."

The largest Squadron in the Air Force within 12 months was so called 717 Squadron.

MD Form 717 was the form you filled out for early release from your 20 year volunteer enlistment. Our pay was garbage, our equipment was run down, and budgets were slashed.

The issue has been compounded by succesive governments from both sides of the political fence. To the point where the following is fact.

In 1969 my Friends father served as a Captain in Vietnam for 12 months with NZ Army.

In 1991 his son served in Timor with the NZ Army contingent of the UN Peace Keeping mission.

He flew to timor in the same serial number C-130 his Father flew to Vietnam in.

He was driven around in the same M-113 APC's his Father had been in.

he was using the same cr@p radios that still didn't work right as his Father had.

Good men died because the NZ Army could not afford to buy the properly rated Military version of the Unimog truck, but had to settle for a green painted civillian version with weaker chasis and suspension.

I have stood on the line keeping peace protesters out of military establishments. You want Peace, don't look at that mob, some of the most downright vicious mongrels I have ever met fighting tooth and nail.

And that was the women.

I worked for 12 months as one of 20 permanent members of the APEC Task Force for the 1999 APEC Conference.

Heres a few facts.

The biggest threat to the security of APEC came from maroons in two parties who could not get it into their head that they were not Gods gift to the bloody universe.

Labour and Winston Peters crew.

I could say more, but tis sensitive and not for mortal ears.

Yes, Aunty Helen should be removed from her job.

Not just because her and her husband have hidden their sexual preference and lied to the people. Come on Mate, do you really think every other security agency and government on this planet don't know the truth.

Upon being elected Aunty Helen binned the Fighter Purchase, which was to have cost NZD 600 million.

At the same time she GAVE NZD 600 million to the Performing Arts.

Who can defend this country against aggressors better?

A decently equiped military, or a bunch of bloody actors and poets.

Kiwikid · 10-29-2006, 01:05 AM

Actually K9Kiwi, I agree with every word you said.

I was never a peace protestor. A group I participated with was called the peace squadron, sure, but my big deal then was that the Cold war confrontation was like a runaway train.

Yep you are right about underfunding of defence, old equipment etc.

I would have had no problem with buying surplus ex USN F/A-18s. There was a hidden agenda to strip the entire RNZAF capability (and no public mandate for it either).

Giving $600m to the arts is pure queer.... I suppose if the Chinese navy turns up we could always try to scare them off with the gay community at the warves with pink tutus. The enemy might die laughing I suppose ?

Quote:

My Mate (nickname of Blow Fly) looks up at Lange and replied "Stuffed if I know mate, I voted National."

hahahahaha

Incidentally maybe it is cathartic that they did get rid of the Skyhawks. We need a new party in power before it will change, but when that happens the way shall be clear for obtaining the F-35, or my preference Eurofighter.

Nonskimmer · 10-29-2006, 06:24 AM

Alriiiiiiiiiight!

Someone else to b*tch about their military state, to take over from us Canuckian types. All too happy to pass that particular baton over to our Kiwi friends. Have at 'er, boys.

k9kiwi · 10-29-2006, 01:54 PM

Smell the roses on this one.

It is not replacing the Fighters that will cost.

It is the avionics, mechanical, systems, life support technicians that have to be trained up from scratch.

It is the loss of all the accumulated years of experience that make up the thing called a Squadron.

All the things you identify with and put the extra mile in for when you are working.

It is wondering if someone is going to chop your knees off in three years time at the next election.

It is the intangable things that MAKE a Squadron, not machinery to fly.

That cannot be replaced quickly, it will take years.