USA reactivates the 4° fleet

[JugBR]

ill post the original in portuguese too, because my english is totaly awfull and somebody could make a better translation. or not !

from bbc brasil:

Depois de 58 anos, a Marinha dos Estados Unidos vai reativar sua Quarta Frota para patrulhar os mares da América Latina.
A frota tinha sido desativada no final da Segunda Guerra Mundial. Mas, a partir do dia 1º de julho de 2008, as forças navais americanas terão um comando de alto nível especificamente dedicado a supervisionar as tarefas de suas unidades na América Latina e no Caribe.

After 58 years, the US Navy goes to reactivate your 4° fleet, to patrol the latin american seas.
The fleet have being disactivate at the end of WW2. But, from July 1° of 2008, the american naval forces goes have a high level command dedicated to supervise the tasks of your units on latin america and caribe.

A frota terá sua base na cidade de Mayport, no Estado da Flórida. Responderá ao Comando Sul dos Estados Unidos, que está na cidade de Miami e dirige todas as forças militares americanas na América Latina.

Um porta-voz militar americano afirmou à BBC que esta medida não significa o aumento da presença militar dos Estados Unidos na região.

Mas analistas afirmam que a medida tem um significado simbólico e tenta responder à aparição de regimes na América Latina que expressaram posições contrárias às do governo dos Estados Unidos.

The fleet should have you base at mayport city, florida. its will responds to the south command of usa, hosted in miami and manages all the american military forces in latin america.

a militar north-american speacher ensures to bbc that this action doesnt means the increase of american militar presence at the region.

but analysts ensure that action have a symbolic meaning and tries to answer to the raise of anti-american governments at latin america.

Decisão política

Alejandro Sánchez, analista associado ao Conselho para Assuntos Hemisféricos, um organismo de investigação americano, afirma que a reativação da Quarta Frota é uma decisão mais política do que militar.

"Nos últimos anos os Estados Unidos se concentraram no Iraque e Afeganistão. Agora estão tentando voltar para a América Latina", disse à BBC.

Para Sanchez, "ainda que a Venezuela adquira submarinos russos ou que o Brasil queira desenvolver um submarino nuclear, nenhum destes países pode representar uma ameaça militar aos Estados Unidos".

Political decision

a. sanches, analyst associated tho the council hor hemispheric affairs, an organism of investigation from usa, says the reactivation is more an politican than militar decision.

"past years, usa, concentrates on iraq and afghanistan, now they´re triyng back to latin america", said to bbc.

for sanches, "even that venezuela buy russian submarines or if brasil should develop one nuclear submarine, none of those can represents a military threat for usa".

O militar encarregado das relações externas nas forças navais do Comando Sul da Marinha americana, tenente Myers Vásquez, afirmou que "em termos operacionais", a reativação da Quarta Frota "não muda nada", é apenas uma medida para ajustar melhor as unidades à estratégia marítima americana.

"Teremos uma sede trabalhando em conjunto com outros componentes do Comando Sul", disse o porta-voz militar.

Vásquez negou que esta medida aumente a presença militar americana na região e afirmou que a reativação é uma medida mais administrativa.

the militar on charge of foreign affairs in the navy forces of south command - us navy, lt. m. vasques, said that "in operational terms" the reactivation doesnt change anything, its just an action to ajustates better the units to the us navy strategy.

"we sould have a hedquarter working with other components of the south command", he said.

vasques denied that thios action should increase the north american presence at the region, he said its just an administrative action.

the rest of the notice:

BBCBrasil.com | Reporter BBC | EUA reativam frota para patrulhar mares latino-americanos

my opinion:

i dont like that. the farc issue, its being resolved, hugo chaves is losing popularity in his country, its a great deal that latin america doesnt have any militarist ambition, the budget that those countries spends with guns is extreme low, for american stands.

this reactivation is a wrong political and strategical decision taken by bush(one more for the collection) and its should make countries like venezuela increase their military units and power, witch could make a arms race in south america. wich is not that we need at the moment. theres social and internal questions more urgent.

but a country like brazil, wich have the largest atlantic coast, could face that decision as humiliating, because the money spent in the modernization of our navy are too few and also theres too many burocratic and political issues behinds. the project of a nuclear submarine comes from the 80´s and never goes ahead, the carrier são paulo(former foch), doesnt have a apropriate fleet to follow him and make operational for one needed eventuality.

[FLYBOYJ]

The US 4th Fleet has been up and running since April - here is the US Navy Press Release...

Navy Reestablishes U.S. 4th Fleet
Story Number: NNS080424-13
Release Date: 4/24/2008 3:32:00 PM



By Mass Communication Specialist 3rd Class Alan Gragg, U.S. Naval Forces Southern Command Public Affairs

MAYPORT, Fla. (NNS) -- Chief of Naval Operations (CNO) Adm. Gary Roughead announced today the reestablishment of U.S. 4th Fleet and assigned Rear Adm. Joseph D. Kernan, currently serving as Commander, Naval Special Warfare Command, as its first commander.

U.S. 4th Fleet will be responsible for U.S. Navy ships, aircraft and submarines operating in the U.S. Southern Command (SOUTHCOM) area of focus, which encompasses the Caribbean, and Central and South America and the surrounding waters.

Located in Mayport, Fla., and dual-hatted with Commander, U.S. Naval Forces Southern Command (COMUSNAVSO), U.S. 4th Fleet reestablishment addresses the increased role of maritime forces in the SOUTHCOM area of focus, and demonstrates U.S. commitment to regional partners.

"Reconstituting the Fourth Fleet recognizes the immense importance of maritime security in the southern part of the Western Hemisphere, and sends a strong signal to all the civil and military maritime services in Central and Latin America," said Roughead. "Aligning the Fourth Fleet along with our other numbered fleets and providing the capabilities and personnel are a logical execution of our new Maritime Strategy."

U.S. 4th Fleet was original established in 1943 as one of the original numbered fleets, and was given a specific mission. During World War II, the U.S. needed a command in charge of protecting against raiders, blockade runners and enemy submarines in the South Atlantic. U.S. 4th Fleet was disestablished in 1950 when U.S. 2nd Fleet took over its responsibilities.

Initially, the new 4th Fleet will be headquartered with COMUSNAVSO and take advantage of the existing infrastructure, communications support and personnel already in place in Mayport. As a result, U.S. 4th Fleet will not involve an increase in forces assigned in Mayport.

"This is a significant change and presents us the opportunity to garner the right resources for the missions we run for Southern Command," said Rear Adm. James W. Stevenson Jr., Commander, U.S. Naval Forces Southern Command (NAVSO). "As a numbered fleet, we will be in a better position to ensure the Combatant Commander has the right assets available when needed."

U.S. 4th Fleet will retain responsibility as COMUSNAVSO, the Navy component command for SOUTHCOM. Its mission is to direct U.S. naval forces operating in the Caribbean, Central and South American regions and interact with partner nation navies within the maritime environment. Various operations include counter-illicit trafficking, Theater Security Cooperation, military-to-military interaction and bilateral and multinational training.

For more information from Commander, U.S. Naval Forces Southern Command visit Commander U.

For more information from U.S. Southern Command visit United States Southern Command (USSOUTHCOM).

Navy Reestablishes U.S. 4th Fleet

Activation of this fleet has little or nothing to do with Bush and I can also assume that Brazil is a "Partner Nation." It also doesn't not mean that there will be more US warships in the Caribbean - it allows a Command to gain assets as needed - it's mission is clear - counter-illicit trafficking, Theater Security Cooperation, military-to-military interaction and bilateral and multinational training. Again I would bet without researching that Brazil is part of that....


As far as Chavez - one of his own people will remove him, it's typical of Venezuela.

[Maestro]

Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ

As far as Chavez - one of his own people will remove him, it's typical of Venezuela.

... As well as most Latin America countries.

[JugBR]

Originally Posted by Maestro

... As well as most Latin America countries.

of course one of his own people should remove him as well most l.a. countries, most of those are democratic, also venezuela, of course theres evidences of manipulation of votes there, but the fact is chavez is popular there. but things are about to change there since the economy doesnt works well...

[JugBR]

Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ

Activation of this fleet has little or nothing to do with Bush and I can also assume that Brazil is a "Partner Nation." It also doesn't not mean that there will be more US warships in the Caribbean - it allows a Command to gain assets as needed - it's mission is clear - counter-illicit trafficking, Theater Security Cooperation, military-to-military interaction and bilateral and multinational training. Again I would bet without researching that Brazil is part of that....

you dont understood my point flyboy, maybe i didnt made myself clear, not issuing the partnership with usa, wich begun before bush(since 1825) and still continues after he quits. my issue is more in the geopolitical scenario of the region wich is the region where less money is spent to buy weapons.and i think it is positive. and should continues like that i hope. the big problems of the region are the drug dealers and the corruption, also the social reforms.

but for another side brazil by its size and by the size of its economy, should have take this notice as an serious warning, not to be attacked by us navy, wich means ridiculous, but to upgrade the fleet and also take the geopolitical role wich should being expect for the country wich have the larger atlantic coast.

[JugBR]

also, "upgrade the fleet" doesnt means make the biggest navy of the world, i believe the budget of the us navy should correponds 10x brazilian gross domestic product, i even can figure how much it should be and of course, its the required for the geopolitical role that usa plays in the world.

my concern is more about to have an modern and more eficient navy to responds the issues of our region also to make a better police over the coast and to ensure the geopolitical role that we should play in latin america.

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by JugBR

you dont understood my point flyboy, maybe i didnt made myself clear, not issuing the partnership with usa, wich begun before bush(since 1825) and still continues after he quits. my issue is more in the geopolitical scenario of the region wich is the region where less money is spent to buy weapons.and i think it is positive. and should continues like that i hope. the big problems of the region are the drug dealers and the corruption, also the social reforms.

And I don't think you understand what is really going on - in essence this is just a paperwork deployment, a name change - there is no expansion of forces, no additional ships, no additional show of force in the region, this is all in name only and for the most part our neighbors will see little if any affect of this. It's just a renaming of what's already there.

Originally Posted by JugBR

but for another side brazil by its size and by the size of its economy, should have take this notice as an serious warning, not to be attacked by us navy, wich means ridiculous, but to upgrade the fleet and also take the geopolitical role wich should being expect for the country wich have the larger atlantic coast.

See above - there is no expectation of Brazil or any other partner country to increase its military - again this is nothing more than a name change that will enable the commander of the 4th fleet to acquisition additional resources if required to do so.

[FLYBOYJ]

I stand corrected - the USS Kersage and USS Boxer, both LHDs will be made part of the 4th fleet. Both ships have been deployed in the region so it's not like the US military presence is really expanding

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I have to agree with Joe here. This is no big deal and will not be one. This sort of thing happens all the time and is nothing new.

Lets not make a moutain out of a mole hill.

On a side note. Jug please downsize your siggy. It does not need to be that big.

[JugBR]

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

On a side note. Jug please downsize your siggy. It does not need to be that big.

better now ?

[JugBR]

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

I have to agree with Joe here. This is no big deal and will not be one. This sort of thing happens all the time and is nothing new.

i believe its not a big deal now, the points in question were clarified.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

No it is still to big.

Look at the size of pretty much everyone else here. Basically aprox the size of mine and Joes is pretty good.

A siggy is supposed to be small and not take up the whole page.

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by JugBR

i believe its not a big deal now, the points in question were clarified.

Just for the record....


If the 4th Fleet was called a flotillia, squadron, or even a squad, it wouldn't make any difference - the only thing that changes is the man at the top and his avaibility to request additional resources. As stated in the poast about the 4th Fleet.

"This is a significant change and presents us the opportunity to garner the right resources for the missions we run for Southern Command," said Rear Adm. James W. Stevenson Jr., Commander, U.S. Naval Forces Southern Command (NAVSO). "As a numbered fleet, we will be in a better position to ensure the Combatant Commander has the right assets available when needed."

And direct from the link about COMUSNAVSO....

4th Fleet Facts:

· Chief of Naval Operations (CNO) Adm. Gary Roughead announced re-establishment of US. 4th Fleet, April 9.

· New U.S. 4th Fleet headquarters will be in Mayport , Fla.

· U.S. 4th Fleet commander will be dual-hatted with Commander, U.S. Naval Forces Southern Command (COMUSNAVSO).

· COMUSNAVSO will retain mission as the Navy component commander for U.S. Southern Command.

· U.S. 4th Fleet will be responsible for U.S. Navy ships, aircraft and submarines operating in the Caribbean, and Central and South America and surrounding waters

· No new permanently-stationed vessels will be assigned to Mayport.


Note the two bullets I highlighted - This command will be run by the same guy currently running COMUSNAVSO - an orgainzation that already exists.

Bottom line, this is just a name change and a re-organization to a US Naval Command - it allows the command to function with greater flexability and authority. This has NOTHING to do with George Bush as the 4th Fleet's re-activation was the decision of the CNO. Any reason to make this look like a provocative US imperalistic move is just propaganda - in fact had this command existed in previous years military and humanitarian aid through out the region would of moved a lot easier.

[Oreo]

Jumping in late: One thought, not sure if it's been mentioned: One of our biggest potential enemies to be contended with in the Carribbean/ Latin American region is China. Already that country is in the process of drilling for oil not far off the coast of Florida. China is probably our biggest, baddest, most dangerous potential enemy in the world. Hopefully, we will never need to fight against them.

We probably would not win, unless we could get rid of our PC ideas.

China's navy is quietly building strength. China's one biggest wildcard in any fight or contest is this: China does not play by our rules. Ever.

I have been to China. I have seen how they live their daily lives and tackle their daily problems. Their biggest strategy to accomplish anything is this: Throw more bodies at the problem, until it goes away. With their presence in the Caribean, I'd want an organized fleet headquarters there, too. JMO.

[Lucky13]

How long before China has an aircraft carrier...?