What do you think of our current President?

[The Basket]

As someone who is British I find the American view on the word Liberal to be a strange one.

America was based on liberal views and ideas. The freedom to vote, to speak, to travel, to do as you pleased. As opposed to tyrannical Britain. That is why you wanted independence from us.

America's greatest trimuphs have been in the name of Liberal ideals such as freedom and democracy.

If this gets me labelled as a pinko subversive then so be it. LOL.

[renrich]

Basket, can see why you are conflicted. Thomas Jefferson was a liberal. Believed that government which governs the least governs best. Believed all men were created equal(apparently did not consider slaves men) Today the definition of Jeffersonian liberal does not fit the people who call themselves liberal. The leftist liberal leadership of the democrat party in this country today fit the pattern of leftist leaders all over the world the difference being only in the degree of leftism. They believe that they alone and only they know what is best for the rest of us and they intend that more and larger government is the answer. They believe in control and they make the decisions. Individualism is out and accepting responsibility and dealing with the consequences of one's choices does not fit their template of behavior. Diametrically opposed to the notions of most of our founding fathers. Emac, great posts as always, I appreciate them.

[syscom3]

Over the past few decades, liberalism has enjoined itself with political correctness, which is the root of many problems in the world.

"Liberalism" up to the 1950's wasnt such a bad thing. In fact, it was good. But in the 1960's, things went wrong with the philosophy.

[FLYBOYJ]

Most liberals in the US would be better defined as "leftist Socialists," but try calling them that and they'll cry and whine like a b!tch in heat.

[Njaco]

America was born with the philosphy that less government was better. Thats why the rage against taxes from England (among other things).

Liberals believe more government is better. That is their mantra. The word meanings between Liberal, Republican, Democrat, Whig, etc have changed significantly over the last 200+ years and don't mean what they used to.

But here is what cracks me up.

Liberals pride themselves on defending the "helpless" - the handicapped, the gender challenged, the poor, the minority, whoever in their eyes is disadvantaged or picked on. Oh, the compassion. But mention a conseravtive and the venom comes out. No room for Republicans on their bus.

Fly, I agree on the stem cell issue. I just don't understand it. If there is a hope for cures for some diseases, why the uproar? It baffles me. You can put all the botox and plastic you want in your body but you can't use something that can cure you? Can anybody explain?

[renrich]

Good point Njacko about liberal's intolerance for conservatives. It is interesting that most conservatives want less government and in fact want to be left alone to sink or swim according to their own efforts. I think they understand by giving up a safety net of government they gain more individual control of their own lives. The dems though appeal to a bunch of single issue groups such as unions, gender challenged, single moms,some racial groups or minorities, etc,etc. yet if you asked all those groups if they are willing to have less freedom and control of their own lives in order to have the benefits the dems promise them, most would say no, we want all our freedoms as well. The other group that supports the left is many of the wealthy elite and they so much money that a few more taves, rules and regs will not bother them. Of course, the other side of the coin is that government is inherently inefficent and most conservatives instinctively know that. For instance the federal government can't seem to figure out how to keep illegals from voting, taking advantage of welfare programs, forging drivers licenses and soc sec documents but private enterprise manages to contrive a seemingly safe way that one can take a plastic card almost anywhere in the world, stick it in a machine and in a few seconds draw cash out of one's account, if he has any. Go figure. By the way, the dems use as a reason for socialised medicine the supposed fact that 47m people in this country have no health insurance. How many of the 12m to 20m illegals are in that 47m?

[mosquitoman]

Stem cells are so important because they can evolve to become whatever cell you want, provided you surround it with a sample of those cells (bit more complicated than that but that's the general idea). The problem with them is that they aren't found in fully grown people or even children. Therefore, stem cells are "harvested" from aborted fetuses and umbilical cords. That's the problem people have with them.
I don't see the argument myself considering that these protesters would gladly accept a heart transplant if they needed one yet a person has to die to donate a heart.

Same situation with animal testing, if it came down to testing a drug on me or a god, Fido gets it every time.

[pbfoot]

Originally Posted by renrich

asked all those groups if they are willing to have less freedom and control of their own lives in order to have the benefits the dems promise them, most would say no, we want all our freedoms as well. The other group that supports the left is many of the wealthy elite and they so much money that a few more taves, rules and regs will not bother them. Of course,

Aside from the weapons what freedoms do we lack in the UK Australia New Zealand Canada etal that you enjoy

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by pbfoot

Aside from the weapons what freedoms do we lack in the UK Australia New Zealand Canada etal that you enjoy

TAXES

[pbfoot]

I/m talking quality of life with the exception of firearms there is very little difference in the quality of life yes our taxes are a bit higher or even lots but for what I pay I am compensated with benefits that in my mind equals out . I am as free or freer then the folks to the south with some laws that are more practicle some times not but I still do not see any difference in the quality of life .

[syscom3]

Originally Posted by pbfoot

Aside from the weapons what freedoms do we lack in the UK Australia New Zealand Canada etal that you enjoy

Only the US has the near absolute right to free speech, as enshrined in amendment #1 of the constitution.

And it has been enforced by the USSC for 200 plus years.

Your rights come from the govt. Our rights come from "god" and cant be changed. Big difference when you think of it.

[FLYBOYJ]

Seriously though, living in Canada for 5 years I have to agree with Pb to a point. The only place in Canada where things are jacked is Quebec...

[pbfoot]

Originally Posted by syscom3

Only the US has the near absolute right to free speech, as enshrined in amendment #1 of the constitution.

And it has been enforced by the USSC for 200 plus years.

Your rights come from the govt. Our rights come from "god" and cant be changed. Big difference when you think of it.

Well God was busy on the day we asked so we said to hell with it
and here are my basic freedoms
1 freedom of conscience and religion;
2 freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication;
3 freedom of peaceful assembly; and
4 freedom of association.
and the laws regarding arrest and detention are no less emcompassing

[drgondog]

Originally Posted by pbfoot

Well God was busy on the day we asked so we said to hell with it
and here are my basic freedoms
1 freedom of conscience and religion;
2 freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication;
3 freedom of peaceful assembly; and
4 freedom of association.
and the laws regarding arrest and detention are no less emcompassing

Any government that doesn't believe in the right of citizens to defend themselves against predators ot their own govenrment is not fit to govern

[drgondog]

Originally Posted by pbfoot

Aside from the weapons what freedoms do we lack in the UK Australia New Zealand Canada etal that you enjoy

Any government that doesn't trust law abiding citizens to own firearms is not a government I want to suffer. The right to self defense is INTRINSIC to a free society