What do you think of our current President?

[Njaco]

As for the God isue, Mosquito said it....

Same situation with animal testing, if it came down to testing a drug on me or a god, Fido gets it every time.

back on thread...

Taxes, Rights, self-defense. I hear alot of sane, intelligent people here - some disagree on subjects, some don't. But as a whole, a credit to being human. So how do the idiots in office, get in office to put us in these situations? If there are that many intelligent folks how do they/we get duped?

Isn't the taxes enough?
Isn't the money for them enough?
Isn't the attitude enough?

A beach town in NJ here is going hi-tech with digital beach tags. You set up an account and it withdraws every time you go to the beach. Who thought this cr*p up? Pay for the beach!!!! $3 million of taxdollars to set this up!!!Why do we tolerate it?

I see discussions on here (and this is about do we like the prez) but how did we get here with the dunderheads in Congress? Or even in the governement in your country? We're talking about intrinsic rights and that is well and good but the inability or apathy to act on those rights gets us deeper and deeper in the hole IMHO.

Hello?
man, I need to take a breath!

[pbfoot]

Originally Posted by drgondog

Any government that doesn't trust law abiding citizens to own firearms is not a government I want to suffer. The right to self defense is INTRINSIC to a free society

What I asked is what freedom to I lack excluding firearms that you enjoy , none is the correct answer

[renrich]

Taxes and guns is enough for me. When you think about it, the government taking away the fruits of your labor through taxes is somewhat akin to slavery. In my mind the only real legitimate task for the federal government is national defense but the feds have gradually usurped the powers of of the local and state government to the point where they intrude in all areas of our lives. The more they tax us so that they intrude more in our lives the more they subject us to a socialistic form of government which is a form of slavery. Why do you think the Soviet Union collapsed? Why do so many people flee Cuba for the US? Why do so many people from all over world try to get into the US? Have we forgotten the lessons of the collapse of most communist governments. As Bill said, when they try to take our weapons away, they lose the right to govern. The only reason "paradises" like the UK and Canada can exist with all your domestic welfare programs is because the US chooses to tax itself to the extent that our military can pretty much police the world. If it weren't for the US military during the Cold War, Europe would probably be under control of the USSR today.

[drgondog]

Originally Posted by pbfoot

What I asked is what freedom to I lack excluding firearms that you enjoy , none is the correct answer

Pb - you do not lack any freedoms until you need them, and a guarantee of your life or freedom is not intrinsic in firearm ownership... you may still lose both even with a firearm.

The options that I may choose to defend either or both is just extended by ownership of my firearms.

I repeat that governments that don't trust law abiding citizens to keep and bear arms for defense of home and family is not a government I want to protect my other freedoms.

[syscom3]

Originally Posted by Njaco

.....
A beach town in NJ here is going hi-tech with digital beach tags. You set up an account and it withdraws every time you go to the beach. Who thought this cr*p up? Pay for the beach!!!! $3 million of taxdollars to set this up!!!Why do we tolerate it?.....

Whats wrong with that.

That isnt a tax, its a user fee. Big difference. Taxes are involuntary. User fee's are optional.

[Njaco]

I don't mean to get off topic and my rant was from following the previous posts and I got ahead of myself. Sorry all.

But a user fee for what? To use the ocean? The beach? My understanding is that NJ is the only state that does this. I know about private beach areas but for public?

User fee's are optional.

Its not optional. They force you to pay. They have people roaming the beaches to collect, looking for tags. I can not go, set up my chair and ignore the fee. They throw you off or charge you in court.

There is a funny definition of Freedom about in the US.
I can buy a home outright, no mortgage, and I still have to pay a fee to the state or local government just to have it.

I can't leave the state without paying a fee at bridges or toll roads.

I have to pay a fee to use water. And I'm told I have to have water.

I give money to the Government. They have my money. But I get into serious trouble if I don't tell them how much I gave them!

Freedom is not only paid for by the red sands of Iwo Jima or Omaha beach. Its also directly out of my pocket and I can't refuse. I don't have the freedom to choose.

[syscom3]

Originally Posted by Njaco

But a user fee for what? To use the ocean? The beach? My understanding is that NJ is the only state that does this. I know about private beach areas but for public?

Its not optional. They force you to pay. They have people roaming the beaches to collect, looking for tags. I can not go, set up my chair and ignore the fee. They throw you off or charge you in court.

Then dont go to the beach.

There is a funny definition of Freedom about in the US.
I can buy a home outright, no mortgage, and I still have to pay a fee to the state or local government just to have it.

I can't leave the state without paying a fee at bridges or toll roads.

I have to pay a fee to use water. And I'm told I have to have water.

I give money to the Government. They have my money. But I get into serious trouble if I don't tell them how much I gave them!

Freedom is not only paid for by the red sands of Iwo Jima or Omaha beach. Its also directly out of my pocket and I can't refuse. I don't have the freedom to choose.

And who pays for all the things that make this a great country? Taxes are essential. The only debate is what level of taxation is tolerated.

[Njaco]

You're absolutely right Sys, on both points. Its the level of taxes that hurt. And the part that is pampantly out of control.

I don't go to the beach anymore but its a shame that our freedom for that is also restricted.

To get back to the topic of the thread, just found this little gem.

"July 2, 1942 - British Prime Minister Winston Churchill easily survives a vote of censure in the Commons focused on his conduct of the war."

Not all leaders while in the grips of a war are supported, huh?

[renrich]

Good point Njacko. Kinda puts a perspective on things.

[pbfoot]

Originally Posted by renrich

Taxes and guns is enough for me. When you think about it, the government taking away the fruits of your labor through taxes is somewhat akin to slavery. In my mind the only real legitimate task for the federal government is national defense but the feds have gradually usurped the powers of of the local and state government to the point where they intrude in all areas of our lives. The more they tax us so that they intrude more in our lives the more they subject us to a socialistic form of government which is a form of slavery. Why do you think the Soviet Union collapsed? Why do so many people flee Cuba for the US? Why do so many people from all over world try to get into the US? Have we forgotten the lessons of the collapse of most communist governments. As Bill said, when they try to take our weapons away, they lose the right to govern. The only reason "paradises" like the UK and Canada can exist with all your domestic welfare programs is because the US chooses to tax itself to the extent that our military can pretty much police the world. If it weren't for the US military during the Cold War, Europe would probably be under control of the USSR today.

Is there any music to accompany this

[The Basket]

Churchill was a democratic leader in a democratic country. Only Hitler and Stalin had no critics.

If the war was going wrong then Churchill should answer for it as head of state.

To offer blind obidience is just not on. Hitler wanted nothing less and look where it got him.

We all have to answer for our mistakes.

[syscom3]

Njaco,

Here in the Peoples Republic of California, beach access for the public is guarenteed by the state, and no fee's can be used to control access (except for parking lots).

We even have a state commision with police powers to enforce it.

[renrich]

The music that goes with is called "Dixie"

[mkloby]

Njaco - I remember the vast majority of the beaches at the Jersey shore charging a fee to get on...

I see where you are coming from. Heck - in NJ you pay such stiff taxes you'd think the budget for keeping the beaches clean could come completely out of that pot...

[Njaco]

Yeah, except we got mortar rounds on the beach for kids to dig up!

Ahhh, but Basket, is Churchill looked upon as the worst PM the UK has ever had? Like Bush is? Just to make ya think.