What do you think of our current President?

[The Basket]

Originally Posted by cougar32d

i don't mean to slam you but were you there? because i was, i did 2 1/2 tours over there and we DID try to stop the looting but it was almost impossible. it's really easy for alot of you armchair generals to sit back and comment on everything because you saw it on t.v. , but for those who had their boots on the ground it is a whole different story you really don't know the facts, just what you saw on the news..............my 2 cents

True...I was never there but I am ex raf and spoke to pals who have.

None of them have much positive things to say.

The looting quotes came from either serving military personel or high ups in the adminitration.

[Aussie1001]

hey Adler and cougar no offense intended as i stated merely my opinion...
But what was the reason america went into Iraq.
a lot say it was for oil the official reason was the supposed W.M.D that mysteriously dissapeared, the most dangerous thing they found in thoes "facilities" were cans of insect repellant.

[The Basket]

I agree with you Aussie. I think the Americanos see this differently than we do.

To oppose the Iraq invasion is not anti-American. Just anti invasion. Not slamming the grunts on the ground...but the administration who sent them there. This is my opinion and it simply hasn't changed over the years.

[Aussie1001]

Originally Posted by The Basket

I agree with you Aussie. I think the Americanos see this differently than we do.

To oppose the Iraq invasion is not anti-American. Just anti invasion. Not slamming the grunts on the ground...but the administration who sent them there. This is my opinion and it simply hasn't changed over the years.

Yes i really do not see the reason America did invade i'm sorry if any one has any info that is not related to questioning wheather my parents are normal or any other smart ass remaks about my heritage i would be happy to hear it.
And basket i 100 % agree with you.

[Njaco]

Aussie, your question has been covered exhautively in afew other threads and I won't go deep into it but.....

1. Terriorist and their training and support.
2. Threat that Suddam created through WMDs, terriorist support and to the region.

That may have been poorly said but check the other threads. As for us Amis, most support the troops (don't want a repeat of Vietnam airport scenes) but we differ on the mission and its usually along political lines. Democrats believe the country was lied to and it should never have happened. Republicans believe we should have done it but probably with a better plan on how to end it. That may be too simple because it does go deeper.

[mkloby]

Originally Posted by The Basket

I agree with you Aussie. I think the Americanos see this differently than we do.

To oppose the Iraq invasion is not anti-American. Just anti invasion. Not slamming the grunts on the ground...but the administration who sent them there. This is my opinion and it simply hasn't changed over the years.

Basket - I would really love for you to come to the United States and spend some time among the various groups that oppose the Iraq War. I do agree with you that opposing the war there is not the same as being anti-American, and yes there are still others that oppose the war but actively support the troops.

However, it is very disturbing to notice that a large number of far left organizations actually oppose the US military and everything about it. Take actions of cities such as Cambridge, Mass and San Fran which spit on troops. Cambridge forced the Boy Scouts to remove collection bins from voting locations citing that collecting items to send overseas was supporting the troops, supporting the Iraq War, and therefore a political statement.



Aussie - It has been covered exhaustively in several threads. All I have to say is if you think that it is morally right to have Saddam Hussein in power of Iraq, I think there might be something wrong with you. Regardless of past support and mistakes that US foreign policy made in the decades preceding - no leader such as that should be left in power. It amazes me that Christians would rather see mass murder be committed against an innocent populace than get involved to stop it because it'll cost their nation both money and perhaps lives of their own servicemen (which is a dear price to pay). I'm not saying that this was the only reason for involvement at all, there were other threats he posed and reasons why it was irresponsible to leave that regime in power, but on those grounds alone intervention is justified. Will Europe and much of the rest of the world support intervention in Iran, or is it acceptable to have that nation go nuclear?

Just out of curiosity, if Australia began a massacre of her people, would you want the US to get involved? Would it be wrong if the US did? And aussie, you don't know the first thing about what was and was not found in Iraq as far as NBC's are concerned.

[pbfoot]

I am not slamming the US here No nation is innocent
I think some of us have selective memories . In the 80's the US supported many governments that performed acts equally dispicable as Saddam . Look at Central America I'll bet well over 200,000 people were killed by by despots supported by the US . Guatamala , El Salvador , Nicaraugua, Honduras .

[Erich]

I think with all the pages rendered here that there has to be admission by all that we are in the mideast and instead of knocking for whatever reason Bush and his aides, that we need to focus if possible our own removal from the land.........that may not be possible of course. the thread really has run out its course

[mkloby]

Originally Posted by pbfoot

I am not slamming the US here No nation is innocent
I think some of us have selective memories . In the 80's the US supported many governments that performed acts equally dispicable as Saddam . Look at Central America I'll bet well over 200,000 people were killed by by despots supported by the US . Guatamala , El Salvador , Nicaraugua, Honduras .

Your point is valid, although I don't know about your figure. But, it's irrelevant to point to past policy as if that in some way excuses present injustice and bloodshed. That is exactly what I brought up that past policy is not the point. It's not about having selective memory - it's about acknowledging past policy mistakes and correcting them in the present. Now, what could possibly be wrong with that?

Don't forget western democracies often have big swings in foreign policies as there are frequently new governments in power. Over the long term, foreign of many nations, particularly the US, often appear to wander aimlessly and are often contradictory.

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by pbfoot

I am not slamming the US here No nation is innocent
I think some of us have selective memories . In the 80's the US supported many governments that performed acts equally dispicable as Saddam . Look at Central America I'll bet well over 200,000 people were killed by by despots supported by the US . Guatamala , El Salvador , Nicaraugua, Honduras .

You're right - but at the same time were those 200,000 lives worth the region not becoming communist? To be honest I can't answer that and only history will show if the ends justified the means.

That's always been a tough one for the US. If we are critical of a regime we are interfering with their internal affairs. If we support a regime we are supporting the brutality of a government who might share our common interest but is run by @ssholes. At the same time I'd invite one to examine the culture of some of these countries where its common for a common police office to execute a rapist or pedophile with no trial. It may not be right to some, but it's the way business is conducted in that part of the world and many in the "Liberal Media" don't report it that way.

[pbfoot]

Excluding Honduras the number killed is over 350000

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by pbfoot

Excluding Honduras the number killed is over 350000

OK - but my point still remains.

Do nothing, you're the bad guy.

Do something, you're the bad guy.

Align with the people, you're meddling in someone else's affairs.

Align with the regime, you're supporting oppressive governments.

[pbfoot]

Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ

OK - but my point still remains.

Do nothing, you're the bad guy.

Do something, you're the bad guy.

Align with the people, you're meddling in someone else's affairs.

Align with the regime, you're supporting oppressive governments.

I do agree totally but the point remains we tend to have short memories most people are not even aware of the crap in Central America but use the defence of Saddams crimes for justification for the war. I'm not trying to hoist blame just a different perspective

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Originally Posted by cougar32d

i don't mean to slam you but were you there? because i was, i did 2 1/2 tours over there and we DID try to stop the looting but it was almost impossible. it's really easy for alot of you armchair generals to sit back and comment on everything because you saw it on t.v. , but for those who had their boots on the ground it is a whole different story you really don't know the facts, just what you saw on the news..............my 2 cents

Amen brother, and I could not agree with you more!

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Originally Posted by Aussie1001

hey Adler and cougar no offense intended as i stated merely my opinion...

If you recall I said you are entitled to your opinion.

Originally Posted by Aussie1001

the most dangerous thing they found in thoes "facilities" were cans of insect repellant.

That is not true, but I will not get into such a discussion because it goes no where. Those that were not there will never believe the things of those that were.