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06-19-2007, 03:04 PM
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#46 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 13,233
Country:  | Quote:
Originally Posted by syscom3  And if the generals see that the restrictions impede their ability to fight, then its their duty to resign to make their point. | Yep - and how many generals have resigned since we've been in Iraq?!?!?
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06-19-2007, 03:09 PM
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#47 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: NIAGARA
Posts: 4,603
Country:  | I don't think a commander in the feild should resign unless he feels he isn't up to the job but prior to the invasion if the General thinks its is a fools errand and feels he cannot should resign and let someone who agrees with the mission to lead . I realize the military is not a democracy but if the General feels he cannot successfully complete the mission with his resources do you really want him to lead
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06-19-2007, 03:15 PM
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#48 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 29,837
Country:  | Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich we must look at the brighter side of things..........hey there isn't one. Chris is right but on the other hand you really do not want a sole military man as pres either. One having experience is obviously beneficial, can't imagine the other Clinton getting in and waving her witches wand around 3 times thinking she can get our troops out of the mideast and back home and everything will just be fine and dandy.
Personally i wouldn't want anything to do with the presidentcy at this stage of the world even if someone paid me millions | I agree Erich, we do not need a General in the office. That has never been the debate here.
What I am saying is this: We do not need a President or his staff taking the place of our Generals.
__________________  US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
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06-19-2007, 03:16 PM
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#49 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 29,837
Country: | Quote:
Originally Posted by syscom3 And if the generals see that the restrictions impede their ability to fight, then its their duty to resign to make their point. | No it is not. Do you know what it does to the moral of a soldier in the field if something like that would happen? Ofcourse you dont...
__________________ US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
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06-19-2007, 03:18 PM
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#50 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 13,233
Country: | Quote:
Originally Posted by pbfoot I don't think a commander in the feild should resign unless he feels he isn't up to the job but prior to the invasion if the General thinks its is a fools errand and feels he cannot should resign and let someone who agrees with the mission to lead . I realize the military is not a democracy but if the General feels he cannot successfully complete the mission with his resources do you really want him to lead | Well what you describe was done to our military in Vietnam and now Iraq.
During GW 1 Geo Bush Sr. let the dogs out for those 20 or so days. There was little restricted. As the Commander in Chief he shut it down when he felt it was over. It needs to be that simple.
__________________ "IF ITS RED OR DUSTY, DON'T TOUCH IT" | |
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06-19-2007, 03:55 PM
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#51 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 1,506
Country: | Older Bush fought in WWII. Maybe that helped his judgement in the Gulf War?
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"What you doing? Oh Nooooo!" | |
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06-19-2007, 03:59 PM
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#52 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: oregon
Posts: 2,285
Country: | Quote:
Originally Posted by syscom3 Better to lose wars that are directed under civilians than to have a general create a dictatorship or escalate a war.
In Vietnam, the generals wanted us to Nuke N Vietnam.
In Cuba, starting a nuclear war not only was an option, but the prefeered option.
In Iraq, the generals didnt listen to their own staff's that said the post war period was going to require lots more troops. | Syscom - you may be painting a broad and somewhat mis directed brush.
Curt LeMay wanted to bomb North Viet Nam "back to the stone age" in 1965 but nobody that I am aware of seriously pursued use of 'specials'. USSR heavily located all over NV plus ships in Haiphong, China upwind for radioactive fall out, etc.
Harry S Truman and the Joint Chiefs seriously looked at the Nuc option when the 1 Million cheerful Chinese 'volunteers' jumped the Yalu - but we didn't have such a big stockpile then - and we were worried USSR would jump Europe.
In Iraq there were two serious and different viewpoints - on one side Powell and others believed we needed 500K to defeat Saddamn with same force composition as Gulf War. Others led by Franks said we could do it with what we did it with ~160K.
Others believed that not only would 500K be required to defeat, but all necessary to stay for the peaceful post war solution while Iraq got back on its feet.
Yes to Cuba - you know why tactical nukes were seriously discussed? and why the wings of F-105s at Homestead had at least one flight 'hot' 24x7?
Think about consequences of iron bomb pre-emptive strike not 100% succesful at knocking out ALL IRBM's operational w/Nuclear warheads in Cuba?
The USSR was explicitly briefed on our options which were B-47s with Mk 26's and F-105's with the lesser specials in bomb bay - none directed to USSR and visible to Soviet radar and recon...
they were equally blunt about Cuba being their ally and there we were! And we knew Castro was begging USSR to go for it..
If the balloon had gone up the world would be a different and unkown place but one thing is certain - nobody and not much else would be living on Cuba - that missle force was spread out too far to be 'selective'
Where were you living at that time, within 1500 miles of Havana? I was living ~20 miles from Homestead AFB and acutely aware of the situation. Friday night Football and date with girl friend took on a new intensity... I was a senior in high school at the time
Better to have intelligent decision makers in civilian clothing and keep the Generals just the way they are - focused on Defending the Constitution from all enemies foreign and domestic.... Dumb ones in the civilian role will screw us as badly as Generals in control
Other countries military swear oaths to the Country -we swear to defend a unique body of published laws...
When warriors like Eisenhower and Grant and Jackson took off the uniform - did they somehow transform into a different and mystical creature called "Civilian" when they became President and Commander in Chief?
I respect your opinion but wonder what the basis is? No offense intended.
Regards,
Bill
Last edited by drgondog : 06-19-2007 at 04:06 PM.
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06-19-2007, 04:10 PM
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#53 | | the old Sage
Join Date: May 2004 Location: Platonic Sphere
Posts: 9,264
Country: | Better to have intelligent decision makers in civilian clothing and keep the Generals just the way they are - focused on Defending the Constitution from all enemies foreign and domestic.... Dumb ones in the civilian role will screw us as badly as Generals in control
Other countries military swear oaths to the Country -we swear to defend a unique body of published laws...
When warriors like Eisenhower and Grant and Jackson took off the uniform - did they somehow transform into a different and mystical creature called "Civilian" when they became President and Commander in Chief?
Amen Bill !! geez can U all imagine Hillary as commander in chief ?
GAG in capitals ~ | |
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06-19-2007, 04:45 PM
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#54 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: oregon
Posts: 2,285
Country: | Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich Better to have intelligent decision makers in civilian clothing and keep the Generals just the way they are - focused on Defending the Constitution from all enemies foreign and domestic.... Dumb ones in the civilian role will screw us as badly as Generals in control
Other countries military swear oaths to the Country -we swear to defend a unique body of published laws...
When warriors like Eisenhower and Grant and Jackson took off the uniform - did they somehow transform into a different and mystical creature called "Civilian" when they became President and Commander in Chief?
Amen Bill !! geez can U all imagine Hillary as commander in chief ?
GAG in capitals ~ | Simply, no. Nor Edwards or Obama - not any Dem in the wings except maybe Joe Lieberman and he won't run. The Democrats no longer have candidates with credible military experience like Truman and Kennedy (I refuse to use plural here) -
Thinking about it, the pipeline has been pretty thin for both parties since Kennedy but non existant for last 47 years for Dems..I guess you could suggest Clark but he was never a credible candidate for President.
From my perspective thay all hate the Military, are embarrassed by our relative position of strength, think we should drink their kool aid, sing Kumbaya, believe the Guardian and the New York Times, subordinate the Constitution to the 'will' of the UN, and ignore China or any other potential threat down the road.
Maybe our grandchildren will enjoy the rights we have in our current Republic but I won't bet on that notion.
Last edited by drgondog : 06-19-2007 at 04:48 PM.
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06-19-2007, 10:37 PM
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#55 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: san antonio texas
Posts: 245
Country: | generals don't resign over bulls**t hissy fits, they resign because they're told to "win" the war then not given the resources ex. manpower and equipment. but again what most of the people in this country know comes from the B.S. media , which again is to turn our citizens against the war and our president. if you don't stand behind our country 100% contact me personally, i'll pay for your move to france.................ps a little off topic but i have have some french army rifles for sale, never been fired, only dropped once....................................cougar32.. .out | |
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06-20-2007, 08:43 AM
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#56 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 29,837
Country: | Quote:
Originally Posted by cougar32d ps a little off topic but i have have some french army rifles for sale, never been fired, only dropped once....................................cougar32.. .out | 
__________________ US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
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06-20-2007, 10:17 AM
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#57 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 13,233
Country: | "From my perspective thay all hate the Military, are embarrassed by our relative position of strength, think we should drink their kool aid, sing Kumbaya, believe the Guardian and the New York Times, subordinate the Constitution to the 'will' of the UN, and ignore China or any other potential threat down the road." That's great!!!
__________________ "IF ITS RED OR DUSTY, DON'T TOUCH IT" | |
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06-20-2007, 10:27 AM
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#58 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 13,233
Country: | This is where I think Bush really has his head up his ass... http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070620...bush_stem_cells
For the potential of some of the diseases and ailments that could be cured, all stops should be pulled on this one. I really doubt you're going to have women purposely getting pregnant just to abort and sell their fetus like I heard from some of the knuckleheads who are against stem cell research and if they did SO ****ING WHAT!
__________________ "IF ITS RED OR DUSTY, DON'T TOUCH IT" | |
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06-20-2007, 10:44 AM
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#59 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 315
Country:  | As an European I do not vote in this poll, but I don't like how Bush mixes religion with politics. Might run in the family:
"No, I don't think atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should hey be considered as patriots. This is one nation uder god."
- George Bush (Senior)
Religion and state shoud be separate. Everywhere. Period!
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06-20-2007, 02:46 PM
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#60 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Edmonton,Alberta
Posts: 2,260
Country: | I have mixed feelings about the guy, when 911 happened, i was right behind him all the way, when he decided to take out saddam, i was still right behind him all the way.
But the problem that i have is he is pretty ignorant, im not gonna go into detail about that because i tend to get blammed on that subject
But the next 4-8 years isnt gonna see anyone more capable of handling Of Iraq
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