What do you think of our current President?

[Staged84]

The media doesn't need to dig to find bad things to say about Bush, his administration, policies, or grammar. I guess it must be because the media is liberal biased, right? Almost all media are owned by a select few multinational corporations. Multinational corporations whose interests do not involve biting the hand that feeds them, or shining the light on the system that financially benefits them. When it becomes glaringly obvious how bad the lie or screw up is, it looks pretty sillly to be wearing the Republican cheerleading uniform to every ball game. When Clinton was President, it was pretty much a 24/7 pick-on-Clinton-fest. True- He was far from perfect, but getting a BJ and fibbing seem to bother me much less than lying our country into a war, then changing the reason we're there daily once we found out about the lie. Shoot- Rush Rimbaugh would be jumping up and down on his desk if Clinton would have done the same things Bush has.

Hey reinrich- Great idea!! We do need a special prosecutor to investigate Bush and the axis of evil.(Cheney, Rice, etc.) The problem is that Congress does not have the votes to get anything through. Most of the reason for the low approval of Congress is the failure to do anything to change Bush's policies.

Truthfully, I can't stand to hear the man talk. His tortuous use of the English language notwithstanding, he is an embarrasment to our country. From his daily one liners to his overused euphemisms and tired partisan rhetoric, it's simply painful to hear him. Our economy is facing "challenges" LOL. The dollar at historic lows, oil at an all time high, forclosures at an all time high, inflation for consumer level items (especially healthcare) running rampant, financial institutions having to be bailed out due to the mortgage crisis (oh yeah- this is "free market" and "deregulation" at work) He reminds me of his daddy. Pretty much every living being in the US was saying we were in a recession, yet he was too busy playing golf in Maine to utter the "R" word. Both Bushs were/are a joke. Not many people are laughing though. Well, maybe the industrial/military corporations are.

BTW- The cheerleading analagy was a reference to Bush Jr.'s cheerleading days in college. Must have been too much of a pansy to play football.

[Njaco]

Stage, want to enlighten us as to what exactly is the "lie"? BTW, Clinton went through the impeachment process, not for a BJ, but because he "lied" about it. And if thats oK by you, I'm assuming you elect a president because of the way he looks because it certantly can't be his character. Right? Barry Bonds should be let go, cause he just "lied". Its ok to destroy secrets and papers after stealing them , like Ol' Sandy the Burglar. Everybody gets a pass except Bush.

[Ham920]

You are equating lying about a BJ to lying about something that has cost this country the lives of thousands of young people and has maimed an untold number of others. When it came to going to war for his country where was George W? Hiding in an airport hanger. At least John Kerry, who was also from a wealthy family and could have avoided the Vietnam War, went to Vietnam and earned the right to criticize our involvement there. Not only was George W. an admitted drunk, he was coward and he has brought this country to the brink of recession if not depression. He is the worst president since Herbert Hoover and/or possibly Sam Grant.

[Njaco]

Wow, great first post Ham.

Lets see.

Clinton lied to a Grand jury and that is why he went through impeachment process. Not the content of the lie but the act that he lied. Remember that when you reach the 2nd Grade and they ask you that question.

And if you are so hyped on the President representing this country how come it doesn't bother you about the adulter in the WH but you're pissed about a drunk? Somebody is messing with your meds.

And what branch of the service was Clinton in? Must have missed that.

And who shall we blame for the deaths at WTC? Thats Clinton again. Had the intel and did nothing. Had 8 years from the first attack and did nothing. In fact his whole terms in office were nothing. Oh, wait, Don't ask, Don't tell. We'll put that on his gravestone, it was his mantra.

John Kerry from a wealthy family. Didn't you hear? No democrats are wealthy. Thats for the Republicans. Ted Kennedy says it all the time.

You missed a bad president. William 'Slick Willie' Clinton.

[freebird]

Originally Posted by Njaco

Hey no prob. We just talkin' is all

But I was with you until the last line. Mc Cain?

I like Mc Cain. I have nothing personal about him. He served with honor.

But....

His policies and agenda are so far from a conservative, he's the liberal faction of the Republicans. I am afraid if he gets in.

OOps, now he's the last hope of the Repubs...

Originally Posted by Staged84

Truthfully, I can't stand to hear {Bush} talk. His tortuous use of the English language notwithstanding, he is an embarrasment to our country. From his daily one liners to his overused euphemisms and tired partisan rhetoric, it's simply painful to hear him.

Sometimes it makes me cringe listening to him speak too...

Our economy is facing "challenges" LOL. The dollar at historic lows, oil at an all time high, forclosures at an all time high, inflation for consumer level items (especially healthcare) running rampant, financial institutions having to be bailed out due to the mortgage crisis (oh yeah- this is "free market" and "deregulation" at work) .

Don't forget the mass exodus of decent paying jobs to China, the ballooning trade defecit, the laughable efforts to control illegal immigration. Bush has not been a success as a conservative.

Originally Posted by Ham920

Not only was George W. an admitted drunk, he was coward and he has brought this country to the brink of recession if not depression. He is the worst president since Herbert Hoover and/or possibly Sam Grant.

Wow a couple of Liberals join the fray...

[pbfoot]

an article i found
Historians will argue over whether George W. Bush is the worst president the United States has ever endured. But that is not the point. Five years after Bush's ill-starred invasion of Iraq, three years after Hurricane Katrina and seven months into the unravelling of the U.S. financial system, the point is that the 43rd president of the United States – regardless of his ranking in the pantheon – is a unique and unmitigated disaster.

Whether Bush is more of a warmonger than James Polk, who in 1846 manufactured a crisis with Mexico in order to seize what is now California, more tolerant of cronyism than poker-playing Warren Harding (1921 to 1923), or more unlucky than William Harrison (he died after catching cold at his 1841 inauguration) is interesting but irrelevant. What we do know is that this president, this "decider" (to use his favoured term), decided his way into a war that has destroyed the nation he was allegedly trying to free, destabilized further an already rickety Middle East and given Islamic terrorism a whole new raison d'etre.

Bush is not the first U.S. president to take a cavalier attitude to civil liberties. Abraham Lincoln did so during the Civil War, while modern presidents reaching back to at least John Kennedy and Dwight Eisenhower have sanctioned the use of illegal assassination.

During the 1960s, when Bush was still a hard-drinking frat boy, American experts operating under presidential authority were teaching enhanced torture techniques to their Latin American counterparts. Bush didn't initiate the practice of extraordinary rendition – sending suspects abroad to be tortured. That honour goes to Bill Clinton.

In short, the road to Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo Bay was open well before Bush took office in January 2001. But the current president has soared to new heights. His predecessors at least had the grace to be embarrassed about dabbling on the dark side. By contrast, Bush and Vice-President Dick Cheney positively gloat about their attempts to subvert human rights.

True, most of the bad press against Bush stems less from his actions themselves than from the fact that they have failed. Had Lincoln lost the Civil War, history might well have treated him as a bum. Had the U.S. succeeded in Iraq and Afghanistan, Bush might be considered one of America's great presidents.

But Bush did not succeed there, or indeed in most of his efforts. With a few notable exceptions, such as stacking the Supreme Court with conservative justices, his record is one of failure. His attempt to beef up the government-subsidized health-care system for seniors has bogged down in confusion. His thrusts at social security reform were stillborn.

An alleged fiscal conservative, he drove the U.S. treasury into deficit to pay for his wars and tax cuts.

Part of the reason is ideology. Bush did little when Hurricane Katrina destroyed New Orleans, in large part because he does not think governments should involve themselves in matters of social welfare. His efforts in the current financial crisis are equally half-hearted and for much the same reason.

But there is something else, something disturbingly feckless about Bush. This has nothing to do with his malapropisms ("The only way we can win is to leave before the job is done"), his insistence on snuggling into bed early every night or his alarming propensity for bicycle accidents.

At a very basic level, Bush is incompetent. He likes to play at commander-in-chief of the U.S. armed forces. But in any other country a commander-in-chief who orchestrated an adventure as disastrous as the Iraq war would be court-martialled.

He clearly has a native cunning that stands him well in the game of politics. But at a deeper level, there seems to be something missing – a neural disconnect in his brain that at crucial moments causes him to be divorced from the constraints of rational thought. How else to explain the abrupt turnarounds such as his 2003 decision to disband the entire Iraqi army (a decision that fuelled the subsequent insurgency) just a few weeks after agreeing that these forces should be kept intact?

In some public events, he seems fully at ease. But in others – particularly his infrequent, televised press conferences – he seems to be observing events from another dimension.

Among U.S. historians, it has become great sport to rank the country's presidents. Bush vies with many for the title of absolute worst – from Ulysses S. Grant, who oversaw a post-Civil War era so corrupt it was known as Grant's Barbecue, to Richard Nixon of Watergate fame, to Herbert Hoover, the hapless president in charge during the stock market crash of 1929.

But Grant, Hoover and even Nixon did not do as much damage worldwide. Americans may still be debating Bush's legacy. I suspect the rest of the world has made up its mind.

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by Ham920

You are equating lying about a BJ to lying about something that has cost this country the lives of thousands of young people and has maimed an untold number of others. When it came to going to war for his country where was George W? Hiding in an airport hanger. At least John Kerry, who was also from a wealthy family and could have avoided the Vietnam War, went to Vietnam and earned the right to criticize our involvement there. Not only was George W. an admitted drunk, he was coward and he has brought this country to the brink of recession if not depression. He is the worst president since Herbert Hoover and/or possibly Sam Grant.

Great first post Ham...

Kerry spent a whopping 20 days in combat. I won't deny his war record but he come back and acted like an "expert" when badmouthing his fellow Vietnam Vets when testifying in front of congress. After Kerry recognized his errors, he sought the "3 BB solution" and had a ticket home.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a Bush fan, but if you're going to make a comparison with Kerry at least walk away saying that they are both sh!theads....

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Originally Posted by Ham920

Njaco, you are an idiot

Great first post. Actually you are the idiot for coming in here and posting that on your first post.

Here is your warning. Dont come in here and insult members of this forum because you disagree with them. Especially on your post!

I really doubt you will come back though. You probably are a one post wonder and you waisted your one post on the one that you did! Good job!

[Njaco]

I think I posted that I'm lukewarm about Bush because I do believe he made mistakes. And now that Mc Cain is it, I'll check him out alittle more. (I know Free )

Pb, who wrote that article?

His attempt to beef up the government-subsidized health-care system for seniors has bogged down in confusion. His thrusts at social security reform were stillborn.

So a Conservative president failed because he tried to strengthen and pass liberal ideals.

He clearly has a native cunning that stands him well in the game of politics. But at a deeper level, there seems to be something missing – a neural disconnect in his brain that at crucial moments causes him to be divorced from the constraints of rational thought.

Is the letter writer talking about either Clinton?

Bush is more of a warmonger

decided his way into a war that has destroyed the nation he was allegedly trying to free

His efforts in the current financial crisis are equally half-hearted

a commander-in-chief who orchestrated an adventure as disastrous as the Iraq war

But Grant, Hoover and even Nixon did not do as much damage worldwide.

All opinion not based on any fact. Warmongerer? Clinton deployed more soldiers to more countries than any other president.

[pbfoot]

I cut it from the Toronto star but now cannot find same article

[Njaco]

No prob, it cracked me up!

I have yet to see a president that hasn't made a mistake or two but its the magnatude of the mistake - and that, to me, is where Clinton wins hands down and gets a pass from the media.

But its a Bush hate Bush world.

[freebird]

Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ

Great first post Ham...

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a Bush fan, but if you're going to make a comparison with Kerry at least walk away saying that they are both sh!theads....

Do you think there are alot of military vets that have soured on Bush because of the botched handling of Iraq? Do you have any more confidence in McCain?

Originally Posted by Njaco

I think I posted that I'm lukewarm about Bush because I do believe he made mistakes. And now that Mc Cain is it, I'll check him out alittle more. (I know Free )

Pb, who wrote that article?

Another Bush-loving Canuck newspaper...

All opinion not based on any fact. Warmongerer? Clinton deployed more soldiers to more countries than any other president.

The problem is with the outcome, people don't usually complain about the costs if the action succeeds.

First - it was the lack of any solid plan to deal with post-Saddam Iraq. Second - the failure to admit the problems, tepid quotes like "stay the course" when it should have been recognised that urgent re-thinking was needed.

The real question - is McCain smart enough to recognise mistakes & correct then quickly enough or will he be stubborn like Bush and keep trying to push a failed plan?

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by freebird

Do you think there are alot of military vets that have soured on Bush because of the botched handling of Iraq? Do you have any more confidence in McCain?

Sure, there are tons of vets who have soured over the handling of Iraq - you said it your self......

Originally Posted by freebird

First - it was the lack of any solid plan to deal with post-Saddam Iraq. Second - the failure to admit the problems, tepid quotes like "stay the course" when it should have been recognised that urgent re-thinking was needed.

BINGO...

Originally Posted by freebird

The real question - is McCain smart enough to recognise mistakes & correct then quickly enough or will he be stubborn like Bush and keep trying to push a failed plan?

Let's put it this way, during this election I have "Electile Dysfunction" Defined as "the inability to become aroused over any of the choices put forth by either political party in the 2008 election year."

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Originally Posted by freebird

Do you think there are alot of military vets that have soured on Bush because of the botched handling of Iraq? Do you have any more confidence in McCain?

As an Iraq Vet I can say that I am pissed off about the botched handling of Iraq but I am not pissed off at Bush per say. I put the blame on Rumsfeld.

Now about McCain I would trust him when it comes to military affairs more than I would trust Clinton or Obama for one main reason:

He served in the military they did not. Hell he was a POW for 7 years!

[Njaco]

and he comes from a very storied military family - only father / son Admirals (his father and grandfather). His roots for defense run deep.