What do you think of our current President?

[Njaco]

Starling, I don't know what your point is and who charles krauthamer but that info was from those websites I listed. And to follow up Ren question about party contributors:

Sun Ray: Hillary Clinton's Corporate Donors

Just a few of Hillary Clinton's recent corporate sponsors.

Jack Abernethy, CEO of FOX TV
Chris Albrecht, HBO chairman
Paul Allen, Microsoft co-founder
Lloyd Blankenfein, Goldman Sachs chairman
Warren Buffett, Berkshire-Hathaway, billionaire
Ron Burkle, Supermarket magnate
August Busch III, Anheuser-Busch chairman
John Catsimatidis, Supermarket mogul
Peter Chernin, News corps. COO
Donny Deutsch, Adverstising exec
Barry Diller, media mogul
Tom Freston, former Viacom president
Brad Grey, Paramount pictures chairman
Vernon Jordan, Washington power broker
Jeff Kindler, Pfizer CEO
Norman Lear, TV producer
John Mack, Morgan Stanley chairman
Rupert Murdoch, News corps. chairman
Ronald Perelman, billionaire investor
Sumner Redstone, Viacom chairman
Brian Roberts, Comcast chairman
Hilary Rosen, lobbyist, former RIAA CEO
Haim Saban, media mogul
Ivan Seidenberg, Verizon chairman
Terry Semel, former Yahoo CEO
Ben Silverman, NBC chairman
Sy Sternberg, NY Life insurance chairman
Howard Stringer, Sony CEO
Richard Thalheimer, Sharper image chairman
Sandy Weill, Citigroup chairman
Robert Wright, former NBC chairman

So we have Peter Chernin, Barry Diller, and Rupert Murdoch, all big wigs at the 'right wing' FOX news corps, all donating and publicly supporting Hillary Clinton.

The bold is mine. Kinda shoots the "Right Wing" Fox News myth to 'ell, also.

[JugBR]

i dont know hows going bush´s popularity inside usa. but outside borders i´m shure the world hates him.

the war on iraq, the way it started, the lies about mass destruction weapons and the agressive attitude against the countries whose doesnt support the invasion, those things wasnt forgotten. the world is more safe without bush.

[Haztoys]

Originally Posted by JugBR

i dont know hows going bush´s popularity inside usa. but outside borders i´m shure the world hates him.

the war on iraq, the way it started, the lies about mass destruction weapons and the agressive attitude against the countries whose doesnt support the invasion, those things wasnt forgotten. the world is more safe without bush.

No mater who's in power in the US there hated ...Its a hobby of a lot of countrys ...They want us to clean up the messes they have no nuts to do ..But are not happy when we do ...And theres been alot less terrist stuff sent Iraq...Theres not been a nother 911..

I sure wish we Americans would pull out of most of the world and let them do some of the hard work...I'm all for it ...

[JugBR]

Originally Posted by Haztoys

No mater who's in power in the US there hated ...Its a hobby of a lot of countrys ...They want us to clean up the messes they have no nuts to do ..But are not happy when we do ...And theres been alot less terrist stuff sent Iraq...Theres not been a nother 911..

I sure wish we Americans would pull out of most of the world and let them do some of the hard work...I'm all for it ...

when a thing starts wrong... never ends right

why those countries you said have a hobby in hate usa didnt criticize the invasion of afghanistan ?

after 911 there ocurred other terrorist strikes in all over the world, the fact 911 never happends again anymore is not an issue of army or airforce, but the police should take care to prevent that, because terrorists are not an army, but a group of political/religious fanatics.

when usa invaded afghanistan it was the right thing to do, because afghan talebans was giving shelter for osama bin laden and his gang. everybody supported that. why this victimization "the world hate us" ? when usa defends themselves doing the right thing, the world doesnt hate the usa.

but the link betwen saddan hussein and al qaeda never have being proved. the mass destruction weapons never have being found. hundread of thousands of iraqi civilians died, just to hanging one man ?

when you starts a war you should have a purpose, a motivation. whats the motivation for the war on iraq ? blow baghdad ?

now they have democracy. freedom ? what is freedon ? bagdhad is a "swiss cheese", every day, people dies by terrorist strikes against civilians. the friends of dick cheeney exploiting the oil reserves of the country, the government is contested by the population. food ? water ? eletricity ? hows the reality of that people ? do you care ?

do you know how to clean up these messes ?
i have no nuts to do .. and george walker bush also doesnt.

when a thing starts wrong... never ends right

[Njaco]

Whats the motivation? It was presented by GW right after 9/11 - to paraphrase "We will go after ANY country that supports terrorism."

Not just Al-quida Osama. ANYBODY who supports terrorism in general would be subject to attack from the US. Saddam supported it in many ways.

Once again the US was doing what the rest of the world didn't want to do.

[JugBR]

yeah, but the guys who supported al qaeda was in afghanistan, saudi arabia and pakistan, not iraq, was proved saddan was just a sucker, arrested in the mud, without money in the wallet and the credit card expired, some hundread of thousand of iraqis who doesnt support terrorism died in the middle of way so as some thousand of american soldiers in iraq also died... is that something to think about ? or its just pacifist bullshit ? whats next ? north ireland ?

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by JugBR

yeah, but the guys who supported al qaeda was in afghanistan, saudi arabia and pakistan, not iraq, was proved saddan was just a sucker, arrested in the mud, without money in the wallet and the credit card expired, some hundread of thousand of iraqis who doesnt support terrorism died in the middle of way so as some thousand of american soldiers in iraq also died... is that something to think about ? or its just pacifist bullshit ? whats next ? north ireland ?

It's funny you should say Northern Ireland - several days after Bush made that comment the IRA announced it was suspending military operations. Coincidence?

[FLYBOYJ]

When Saddam Hussein was removed from his hole the US should have been gone, I agree. The greatest disservice to do to a soldier is to place that soldier in a “police action.” At the same time we have given the Iraqi people a chance to sort things out for them selves but because of religious and ethnic differences they turned on each other. This shows that only a brutal tyrannical dictator was needed to keep the country together. An occupying army in the country didn’t help matters.
I’m going to point out a few things that probably are not mentioned much in Brazil (My best friend lived there for a year in 2005 and he’s had many discussions with Brazilians who hate Bush).

There were WMDs found, no where to the level advertised, but they were there – there are members on this board who actually saw them.
The US imports about 15% of its oil from Iraq – if it was all about the oil we would have taken it all a long time ago.

Saddam Hussein needed to go and WMDs and 9-11 were not the only reasons why he was taken out. At the same time the US should have been gone a while ago to concentrate more on the Taliban and Afghanistan.

So the final word on this – I know many South Americans look at the US as the world’s “big bully" - that's going to happen no matter what and personnaly I could care less (I have family in Venezuela and heard this for years). In essence the course of events was done by those who perpetrated the initial actions. Had Saddam Hussein FULLY complied with the 12 or so UN resolutions against him he’d still be in power. The same could be said to Taliban had they turned over Bin laden in September of 2001.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Originally Posted by JugBR

yeah, but the guys who supported al qaeda was in afghanistan, saudi arabia and pakistan, not iraq

Can you 100% actually prove that, or is this just your opinion?

[cougar32d]

Well said FlyboyJ. Now as for the rest, opinions are important but only if they're informed opinions. If you have no concrete proof in what your saying,i.e. Wmd's ect.....keep it to yourself.

[Njaco]

Well said, Flyboy!

yeah, but the guys who supported al qaeda was in afghanistan, saudi arabia and pakistan, not iraq,

It wasn't a matter of just going after ONLY Al-qeda, it was any terroist. And one of the worst offenders of that was Saddam.

We didn't go there just for Osama.

We didn't go there just for WMDs.

We didn't go there just for oil (of course I fail to see how it affected that with oil prices in the US skyrocketing!)

It was for a whole host of reasons, mainly Saddam was one of the worst offenders against the UN sanctions and supporting terrorism worldwide. One of the first terrorists we captured was the mastermind of the Achille Lauro incident.

And as for the other countries that didn't join, some had connections to Iraq that wouldn't be very nice if known. The second home of Ayatollah Khommeni had a booming business secretly importing weapons materials to Iraq through Syria and others. They didn't join just because of integrity and a moral compass.

[JugBR]

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

Can you 100% actually prove that, or is this just your opinion?

yes i can prove, pakistan is a country with many al qaeda members inside, they run for pakistan and back to afghanistan, crossing the borders easilly, sky news, cnn, even brazilian tv shows that, people buy a machinegun in the streets there. hardcore. portuguese television show that. of course the musharraf(its right ?) are friend of bush and pakistan shows some cooperation, but inside the country theres people who supports al qaeda everybody knows that.

and saudi arabia, rssssss what can i say about ? its a democratic free soceiety ! by the way, bin laden is from there. how he goes to afghanistan ? its a long story that everybody knows and involves the cia and the war against the soviet invasion of afghanistan.

Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ

When Saddam Hussein was removed from his hole the US should have been gone, I agree. The greatest disservice to do to a soldier is to place that soldier in a “police action.” At the same time we have given the Iraqi people a chance to sort things out for them selves but because of religious and ethnic differences they turned on each other. This shows that only a brutal tyrannical dictator was needed to keep the country together. An occupying army in the country didn’t help matters.
I’m going to point out a few things that probably are not mentioned much in Brazil (My best friend lived there for a year in 2005 and he’s had many discussions with Brazilians who hate Bush).

im 100% with you flyboy, if US should gone when saddan was removed from its hole (very simbolical isnt ?) could be better for everybody. but do you believe bush, rumsfeld, and cheney didnt know, if US gone, somebody worst than saddan would take power in iraq ?

thats why should be better if iraq wasnt invaded. the iraqi army wasnt represents any risk for other nations in middle-east. it doesnt supported terrorism because the country was suffering a embargo, UN specialists was there, they ensure was no mass destruction weapons, no nuclear projects, no poison gas. what bush administration said ? UN lies ! UN chickens !

u know.. its a children-like atitude, not compatible for the major nuclear arsenal of the world and the biggest economy and the responsabilities it carries on. france opposed to the invasion, "bah, those cheese eater surrender monkeys", germany also does and russia too "ha ! the axis of weasels".

you see, the bush administration is very arrogant, they think they are right, the entire world is wrong. the invasion of iraq is not about 9/11/2001, if you take back the past 15 years of history you´ll se the iraq would be invaded one way or another, when a republican took the white house.

im not anti-american, most of people in the world are not anti-american, if some south americans believe usa is the "big bully"(i dont know what really means, but can figure) i believe is the big minority, some old leftists and ghosts from the cubam "revo-illusion" still around but time will take care of them.

what i know is when that planes crashed in wtc, the great majority of people of the world saw that and were horrified at that scene and felt sorry for the victims and those families. i wont say we felt the same pain, because its hypocrisy, only who lost parents and friends know how hurts.

and people supported the invasion of afghanistan, because bin laden was there. the un, france, germany, even russia supported the invasion of afghanistan. because it was fair, it was deserved it must be done.

but those same people see the bush allegations about iraq, the lies, the arrogance, the threats, and the scenes of iraq and being horrified at same. you can fool some people some times but not fool 6 bilion at same time.

so this story about being anti-american is crap, people should not desperately fall in love by usa. but you can be sure usa is very far to be the most hated country. what we hate is the arrogance and irresponsibility of bush administration. no bush no problem.

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by JugBR

im 100% with you flyboy, if US should gone when saddan was removed from its hole (very simbolical isnt ?) could be better for everybody. but do you believe bush, rumsfeld, and cheney didnt know, if US gone, somebody worst than saddan would take power in iraq ?

I think it was their assumption that the Iraqi people would easily unite and all would be well, a very wrong assumption.

Originally Posted by JugBR

thats why should be better if iraq wasnt invaded. the iraqi army wasnt represents any risk for other nations in middle-east. it doesnt supported terrorism because the country was suffering a embargo, UN specialists was there, they ensure was no mass destruction weapons, no nuclear projects, no poison gas. what bush administration said ? UN lies ! UN chickens !

Actually Bush was using the 9 years of Saddam Hussien playing games with the UN as an excuse. Had he come 100% clean and complied with all UN resolutions he's still be alive and in power.

Again as stated - there were WMDs found and again, not to the extent as advertised.

Originally Posted by JugBR

u know.. its a children-like atitude, not compatible for the major nuclear arsenal of the world and the biggest economy and the responsabilities it carries on. france opposed to the invasion, "bah, those cheese eater surrender monkeys", germany also does and russia too "ha ! the axis of weasels".

And at the same time France and Germany were the first ones complaining that they were being excluded from major support contracts after Saddam Hussein was removed.

Originally Posted by JugBR

you see, the bush administration is very arrogant, they think they are right, the entire world is wrong. the invasion of iraq is not about 9/11/2001, if you take back the past 15 years of history you´ll se the Iraq would be invaded one way or another, when a republican took the white house.

I could agree to a point - Bush had to build a case against Hussein and a lot of that case was handed right to Bush because of Hussein's arrogance as well.

Originally Posted by JugBR

im not anti-american, most of people in the world are not anti-american, if some south americans believe usa is the "big bully"(i dont know what really means, but can figure) i believe is the big minority, some old leftists and ghosts from the cubam "revo-illusion" still around but time will take care of them.

A bully is someone who will pick on a weaker opponent unprovolked.

Originally Posted by JugBR

what i know is when that planes crashed in wtc, the great majority of people of the world saw that and were horrified at that scene and felt sorry for the victims and those families. i wont say we felt the same pain, because its hypocrisy, only who lost parents and friends know how hurts.

I knew 5 people who died at the WTC - my in-laws were friends with Jayson Dahl, he was the pilot of flight 93.

Originally Posted by JugBR

and people supported the invasion of afghanistan, because bin laden was there. the un, france, germany, even russia supported the invasion of afghanistan. because it was fair, it was deserved it must be done.

Agree...

Originally Posted by JugBR

but those same people see the bush allegations about iraq, the lies, the arrogance, the threats, and the scenes of iraq and being horrified at same. you can fool some people some times but not fool 6 bilion at same time.

Again not all lies, Saddam Hussein played games with the UN for almost 9 years - he handed Bush the excuse he needed, right or wrong.

Originally Posted by JugBR

so this story about being anti-american is crap, people should not desperately fall in love by usa. but you can be sure usa is very far to be the most hated country. what we hate is the arrogance and irresponsibility of bush administration. no bush no problem.

And he'll be gone in a few more months....

[Kruska]

Hello JugBR,

More or less I agree fully with your post, besides Bush.

IMO it is not just about the person Bush, but the fact that in the US in the meantime groups whose interests are purely economic, are actually able to embody a president, that is using the US government and even the US Armed Forces to pursue “their” economic interests. That the Bush family itself is a member of that group makes things even more dangerous for this world. And it makes it almost impossible to distinguish between public interest on behalf of the people of the USA or pure personal financial profiteering of the ones in power.

Off course every president on this planet has to return some “favors” to his lobbyists, but if you are the lobbyist yourself, hm…………

Regards
Kruska

[FLYBOYJ]

Kruska, perhaps to a point...

Again if it was all about the oil 100% of Iraq's oil would be flowing here, but I also believe that some of those interests you speak about not only live on this side of the pond.