What do you think of our current President?

[syscom3]

Duty Honor Country - you don't get to choose your assignements. A soldier slautes and executes

I would suspect that after Vietnam, a few generals would have learned from the vast number of mistakes made from the JCS and President. Obviously, more than a few generals were hell bent in getting the chance to defeat Sadddam army, but had no courage to speak out against a poorly thought out and incredibly optimistic plan for post war Iraq.

One tends to look foolish calling people names without facts - in fact, calling them names is silly - You and I have enough faults of our own to waste time telling other people how stupid THEY are

Insulting the presidency has been a time honored sport in the US since John Adams was elected.

4.) The enemy or opposition was actually good enough to defeat the best planned and executed intentions

Poor planning is no excuse when it comes to war.

5. SH** happens!

Poor planning is no excuse when it comes to war.

I was in New Orleans in 1965 when Betsy Damn near breached the Locks and levees - Michoux was under 12 feet of water, winds were steady 110 gusting to 165 in the French Quarter but it was a III before hitting land. The city was no more prepared than today. the state was no more prepared than today. You think LBJ was brilliant and Bush was stupid because of different results? The Corps raised the same issues 50 years ago and 40, and 30, and... so - LBJ, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton yawned and dodged bullets - you think Chertoff (who can't authorize funds for levee buildup deserves to to be shot for the mistakes of every Pres since ??

Bush had a wonderfull opportunity to discredit the democrats in La and completely botched it. All he had to do is have a plan before hand, execute it the day after when the mayor and gov were shown to be idiots, and then have a press conference explaining the corruption in the city, the rules of the posse comitatus law and "this is what were going to do". Instead he wandered around looking like a deer in the head lites, not knowing WTF to do.

Who deserves to be shot for 'not having a plan' for Mt St Helens?

Mt Helens wasn't destructive for any city. Theres also a huge difference between three days warning a hurricane is coming and an event that had basically zero warning.

New Orleans is Unique. The San Andrea fault is unique, Yellowstone is unique, Krakatoa was unique - where are the plans to PREVENT any of those disasters from occuring? What is your plan?

Yellowstone is a caldera that might or might not erupt in a time frame spanning the next 500,000 years. Krakatoa was in 1883, and its not expected to be a volcano of interest for another century or two.

California earthquakes are predictable to the point we all have disaster plans that work. The Northridge quake only killed 64 people, 1/2 of which were in a single collapsed building. Not much at all when you think of it. Obviously many states and cities in the gulf region should come and see what California is doing right.

Wait till the Mississippi changes course if you want to see a real disaster in New Orleans when the #2 port falls somewhere short of Dallas in annual tonnage - then blame the current President whoever he or she is? The Corps and every knowledgable geologist in the South Knows it WILL happen - only a matter of time despite spending $3 B/yr to shore it up

Irrelevant for an event that may or may not happen in our lifetime. And if it does..... the question should be who has the disaster plans. BTW, I presume you are reffering to Houston, not Dallas.

There are a lot of processes that failed pre Katrina 48 hours but you need to fire Mayor and Guv first for refusing offered Federal aid

And why wasnt King George up there at a press conference saying that? Is it because he is so inept he doesnt see an opportunity when its handed to him?

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Originally Posted by syscom3

I would suspect that after Vietnam, a few generals would have learned from the vast number of mistakes made from the JCS and President. Obviously, more than a few generals were hell bent in getting the chance to defeat Sadddam army, but had no courage to speak out against a poorly thought out and incredibly optimistic plan for post war Iraq.

Because soldiers dont do that. You do you duty as ordered...

Soldier know that, civilians dont.

Originally Posted by syscom3

Poor planning is no excuse when it comes to war.


Poor planning is no excuse when it comes to war.

Your right especially when the people who knew what to do were fired.



]

[drgondog]

Originally Posted by syscom3

Insulting the presidency has been a time honored sport in the US since John Adams was elected.

Obviously the behavior is right for you, what can I say?

Poor planning is no excuse when it comes to war.

Great planning dies after the first shot - after that the unexpected is frequently commonplace. The great equalizer is the ability to adapt and improvise - which didn't happen - but I put the blame on the .) planning assumptions and the combined civilian and military leadership when the situation didn't follow the plan - nobody wanted to admit they were wrong, nobody knew how to solve a mass boots on the ground troop deficiency w/o whispering 'draft' and taking the political heat

Bush had a wonderfull opportunity to discredit the democrats in La and completely botched it. All he had to do is have a plan before hand, execute it the day after when the mayor and gov were shown to be idiots, and then have a press conference explaining the corruption in the city, the rules of the posse comitatus law and "this is what were going to do". Instead he wandered around looking like a deer in the head lites, not knowing WTF to do.

This is a trait that you ought to like most about him - he doesn't point fingers at anyone - including Clinton and Carter

Mt Helens wasn't destructive for any city. Theres also a huge difference between three days warning a hurricane is coming and an event that had basically zero warning.

Actually I agree the difference but used each to illustrate that NO plan in place will solve a disaster of the same magnitude as Katrina or worse. If Mt St. Helens is replicated in Seattle there isn't a disaster plan that will be worth toilet paper - and actually MSH did have warning but our science isn't good enough to be precise - ditto Krakatoa or Yellowstone - but just suppose the science is good enough and the prediction is that YS will erupt 6 months from now with same magnitude? Whats your plan?

California earthquakes are predictable to the point we all have disaster plans that work. The Northridge quake only killed 64 people, 1/2 of which were in a single collapsed building. Not much at all when you think of it. Obviously many states and cities in the gulf region should come and see what California is doing right.

Not for an 8.5 to 9.0 one mile offshore with a large displacement event - what is the plan with 30 minutes warning? or three hours or 3 days?

Irrelevant for an event that may or may not happen in our lifetime. And if it does..... the question should be who has the disaster plans. BTW, I presume you are reffering to Houston, not Dallas.

No I meant Dallas - as in sum total of maritime traffic is mostly Trinity river which is dry a lot. When the Miss goes, Bossier City is not only sin city but next great port in US



And why wasnt King George up there at a press conference saying that? Is it because he is so inept he doesnt see an opportunity when its handed to him?

To the last - see the comments above - it just isn't his style to blame someone else. I have never seen him blame a Dem or Repub or Green or even Michael Moore for lies, misrepresentations - or most important, his own mistakes.

And it probably has killed the Republican Party because the Democrats don't have that ethical issue (my opinion only) nor do many other human beings. We just don't like to be held accountable for bad results and 'unhappiness'

Look we aren't going to agree on what constitutes ethical or polite behavior or even what is fair game in personal character assasination so life goes on. I'll manage to my own pitiful standards and just try to get by

Regards,

Bill

[Jugulator]

Originally Posted by cougar32d

yes, 3 tours embracing the suck. not 3 years straight though. had some in-between time because i forgot to duck.

By chance, would you know a Peter Hardy? he's the father of a friend of mine. I believe he is a contractor of sorts, and I know that he's currently on another tour in Iraq.

[syscom3]

King George "the imbecile" just had his ass handed to him by the senate republicans who ignored his requests to cut off cloture for the amnesty bill.

This presidents legacy is ruined. I think he might do the impossible and actually be thought of as worse than Carter!

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Originally Posted by Jugulator

By chance, would you know a Peter Hardy? he's the father of a friend of mine. I believe he is a contractor of sorts, and I know that he's currently on another tour in Iraq.

What kind of a contractor is he, like what does he do and what camp is he at. If he was a aviation contractor I may have known him from when I was there.

[ToughOmbre]

Originally Posted by syscom3

This presidents legacy is ruined. I think he might do the impossible and actually be thought of as worse than Carter!

Worse than Carter? That's cold.

But is he worse than LBJ?

[Jugulator]

LBJ was actually a pretty crafty president, you should see the book with transcripts from his time in office. Crazy mo fo right there, man. Gives you good look into how a president operates, too.


And Adler, I sadly don't know any of those things, other than what I've already told ya.

[ToughOmbre]

Originally Posted by Jugulator

LBJ was actually a pretty crafty president,...

"Gulf of Tonkin" was pretty crafty. Too bad 58,200 American boys died in a war that he had NO idea how to fight. Viet Nam War will always be LBJ's debacle.

[Jugulator]

didn't mean about the Vietnam war. I mean in the homeland. As far as war was concerned, he was a complete idiot on most fronts.

[Jugulator]

Originally Posted by ToughOmbre

Worse than Carter? That's cold.

Yeah, I don't think you can get worse than Carter.

[mkloby]

Originally Posted by ToughOmbre

Viet Nam War will always be LBJ's debacle.

I don't think that I could agree with more... studying LBJ makes me sick.

[renrich]

You people who hold up LBJ as an example of a good president don't know S--- from Shinola. Ask any informed Texan who was a grown up during the time Landslide Lyndon was a politician and he will tell you that LBJ was a coarse, unprincipled, crooked jerk. If the media and the democrats had not done such a hatchet job on Bush, the US Army would probably have settled the hash of the so-called insurgents by now and Iraq would have been a much more settled country. For all the carping the dems and the media have done about the poor planning of the administration I have not heard one substantive alternative plan proposed(after the fact) by the critics about how the situation could have been handled more effectively. The only thing I fault the administration on is that they appeared to have been too optimistic about the aftermath of the overthrow of Saddam and maybe that is just my impression. Remember, the enemy always gets a vote.

[syscom3]

This is how the president feels about us.

[FLYBOYJ]

And Teddy seems to be showing about the same...