What do you think of our current President?

JugBR · 06-28-2008, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

Republican...

xiiiiiiii

Kruska · 06-28-2008, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arsenal VG-33

What is the 6000 15A2C ?

I wouldn't be surpised at all if such 2nd-3rd party transactions did occur, even with people who are members of government......

Hello Arsenal VG-33,

Sorry, the US assault rifle 15A2C, and yes 99% of these "contractors" are former government-military members with naturally existing inside government contacts and its big $$$.

Regards
Kruska

Haztoys · 06-28-2008, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kruska

You can be dead sure that no weapons or technology was delivered with the knowledge or approval by the French and German government.
There are procedures such as an export allowance and approval requisition for anything that needs to be exported. Especially to countries which are on an Embargo list. It also includes a 3rd party statement in regards to illegal transactions on behalf of the 2nd Party.

Regards
Kruska

Dead sure .......How......?...You sure seem at times to be sure about things the rest of the world is not..And make statement on them as true.. I would never state this ...And your proof is were... ??

Some of the arms found "I" would think would never had been sold to arms dealer ..To high tec to just let someone buy and walk out the door like its Wal-mark and a can of beans...And the French are a loose cannon if they did sell said arms to an arms dealer...

No clue if the Germans sold arms .."I" have never herd that they did ..New one on me ..The Russians and the US seem to have pissing contest and have for years ..If the US is on one side the Russian's sell arms to the other ..And the US doe's the same ...As an American I'm not proud of it ..And wish we would stop ..Countrys work very hard to get arms to some place they should not ...The US made copys of Russian RPG's for the Afghan's..Remember

I seem to remember the French really up in arms about the US going into Iraq..I wonder why..And D.A.I.G was there and have no reason to think he did see the date of said arms ...But the Europeans would never sell arms in the back door of a country that NATO and the UN was trying to close down.. Right..

...Your sure ..Dead sure ...??

Sad how all countrys seem to see money in selling arms to a war they should not...Not just the US and Russia...

Now weres your proof that the so called arms dealers sold arms with out the French government knowing..Well ...?

Kruska... I have a friend here in Arizona he's from England been here ten years.. We will take a month or two and all I will read is the American propaganda new ...And my Brit friend will only read the European propaganda news ... Then we set down and have some drinks and dinner..And speak of what we have read.. And not kick each others a$$ saying my news is true ..And yours is BS...

And you would be shocked on what he has herd and not herd.. And what I've herd and not herd on whats going on in this world ...So how do we tell whos speaking the truth..??????

Give it a try ...It may change your thinking

FLYBOYJ · 06-28-2008, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kruska

and yes 99% of these "contractors" are former government-military members with naturally existing inside government contacts and its big $$$.

Regards
Kruska

I could tell you Kruska as a current DoD civilian contractor this collusion is not as rampant as you portray, at least in today's world. Since the late 1990s there has been drastic changes in the way ex-military members are approached by contractors and how they peddle their ex-military influence. Although right now the system isn't perfect, be rest assured EVERYONE is being watched, and for proof of that look at the recent shake-up of the USAF.

I'm not denying what you say doesn't exist, but its not as intensive as you think and those who might peddle some favors are eventually found out and dealt with.....

Kruska · 06-28-2008, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haztoys

I seem to remember the French really up in arms about the US going into Iraq..I wonder why..And D.A.I.G was there and have no reason to think he did see the date of said arms ...But the Europeans would never sell arms in the back door of a country that NATO and the UN was trying to close down.. Right..

...Your sure ..Dead sure ...??

Haztoys, these armsdeals are seperated into G2G business (Government to Government) and contractor business.
Under G2G it is understood that a violation of a UN embargo by repectable states will never be allowed or conducted.

For this problem you need people such as Col. O. North.

The contractor business is not within 100% control of the government, besides export declaration permits, and not every container is opened and checked. So in this event you can't point fingers at the respective government.

Now weres your proof that the so called arms dealers sold arms with out the French government knowing..Well ...?

Maybe I could be involved in some way in this kind of business control ? or simply because there was no G2G business between France and Iraq during the UN Embargo, and France would never risk it.
So either Adler saw something different, and if not it can only be due to a contractor deal.
To manipulate or channel high tec military hardware into any country isn't the problem at all, the problem starts when the respective weapons or systems are found or detected, where they are not supposed to be - like a German Leopard in Lybia.

Give it a try ...It may change your thinking

Thanks, but so far in contra to you, I do not generally wipe off others arguments just because I do not like the content or the person. I do notice that Adlers French bombs are accepted by you immediatly, in contra to other peoples knowledge about something.

Now let me put it it straight to you: show me the G2G contract between France and Iraq regarding those bombs - if you can't just believe whatever you want but do not try to forward it as a fact to me.

Maybe you can try to think about your approach and we might get along just fine, which I wouldn't mind at all.

FLYBOY:

In the Middle East and in Asia there are 9 countries that channel exclusivley through G2G, all the others are not, have a look on a map to see about how many countries you would be talking about in regards to non G2G business.

Regards
Kruska

FLYBOYJ · 06-28-2008, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kruska

FLYBOY:

In the Middle East and in Asia there are 9 countries that channel exclusivley through G2G, all the others are not, have a look on a map to see about how many countries you would be talking about in regards to non G2G business.

Not denying that as stated, but tying folks directly to the US DoD either as a direct employee or contractor is the point.

renrich · 06-28-2008, 01:18 PM

kruska, I hope your earlier post was not referring to me as I have tried to be respectful of your opinions even if I disagree. You do make statements without sufficient back up evidence sometimes such as the statement which Flyboy addressed above better than I could have. You say that the Bush approval ratings are evidence that your opinions are valid. Are you aware that the approval ratings of the US Congress are substantially lower than those of Bush. Would you then say that, since the majority of Congress seems to think the Iraq war was a mistake or has been mishandled, as you do, that your opinons are wrong since you appear to be in concert with Congress? Are you aware that Harry Truman's approval ratings, because of the Korean War, were lower than those of Bush(around 23%) and yet he is now rated among our best presidents? The Korean War is one of he reasons that Truman is highly rated and we still have troops on the ground there. Are you aware that Bush had an approval rating of less than 50% just prior to the last presidential election and he won that election with a majority of the popular vote? Did you know that Bill Clinton, a US president who was alledgely held in high esteem by your European compatriots, never won a majority of the popular vote? His approval ratings never fell to the level of Bush's. I make these points so that I may show you that approval ratings are pretty much irrelevant and are heavily influenced by the propaganda put out by the media and the opposing political party.

Kruska · 06-28-2008, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ

Not denying that as stated, but tying folks directly to the US DoD either as a direct employee or contractor is the point.

Hello FLYBOY,

No problem at all and it is happening daily. One reason is that most “smart” arms producers (Not only the US off course) have their factories or joint-ventures in “suitable” countries. Even if one would find a F-22 in Iran, so what, you can’t blame the US government for it until you manage to find the (Mr. North) connection and even then it would still be difficult to impossible to direct it at the respective government, - was Ronald Reagan impeached? At the end it was “just” a CIA blunder right? And it is not just about UN Embargos.

How would you explain “reasonably” the sale of 10 109 AT Augusta’s to Libya 3 years ago?

You are correct that it has become more difficult for certain countries to supply, but the customers still get what they need, and if they can’t get a F-15 or F-18, certain (in this case) US channels even finance and handle the alternative MiG 29 deal, later on even resulting into maintenance contracts.

If you have the time and interest check out the company AIROD in Malaysia, it’s an eye-opener (You sure the CIA is not monitoring this forum?)

It’s a rough and bad world out there Flyboy, believe me, that you as a contractor felt maybe being put into the firing line by me I can understand, but it wasn’t reflected towards you or thousands of others who do a clean living.

Regards
Kruska

Haztoys · 06-28-2008, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kruska

Regards
Kruska

You real think theres a contract with G2G on arms ..?? Why would they ..I'm sure there was no contract with the Afghan RPG sells ... As on most back door arms sells ... You really think there would be ..?? "I" feel there would not ..

Adlers I trust he was there over a news groups spin...US news or European news ..Syria had a nuke plant bombed by the Israels and guys here had to real dig to find it .. The only place I can could find it was on MSN news of all places..Not CNN or BBC..Why.... I guess Adler need not see what was there ... Ether the French sold the bombs in the back door ..Or there dump anuff to not keep an eye on were the arms go ..

You do not like my approach ..Sorry I'm really not a bad guy.. And will work on that .. And your European one sidedness is as upsetting to me ... I've been here sents 05 ..And never had a run in with anyone ..You have been here a short time and have had a few .. And I'm sure you are not as one sided as you come across..My Friend ...Just please take what you read in the news with a grain of salt..And alot of over sea's news about the US is propaganda... Do not forget if they can hide the bombing of a nuke plant ..What else is BS...

And I'm glad I look at each sides BS and not just one ...

FLYBOYJ · 06-28-2008, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kruska

Hello FLYBOY,

No problem at all and it is happening daily. One reason is that most “smart” arms producers (Not only the US off course) have their factories or joint-ventures in “suitable” countries. Even if one would find a F-22 in Iran, so what, you can’t blame the US government for it until you manage to find the (Mr. North) connection and even then it would still be difficult to impossible to direct it at the respective government, - was Ronald Reagan impeached? At the end it was “just” a CIA blunder right? And it is not just about UN Embargos.

How would you explain “reasonably” the sale of 10 109 AT Augusta’s to Libya 3 years ago?

You are correct that it has become more difficult for certain countries to supply, but the customers still get what they need, and if they can’t get a F-15 or F-18, certain (in this case) US channels even finance and handle the alternative MiG 29 deal, later on even resulting into maintenance contracts.

If you have the time and interest check out the company AIROD in Malaysia, it’s an eye-opener (You sure the CIA is not monitoring this forum?)

It’s a rough and bad world out there Flyboy, believe me, that you as a contractor felt maybe being put into the firing line by me I can understand, but it wasn’t reflected towards you or thousands of others who do a clean living.

Regards
Kruska

No problem Kruska - totally understand your position.

AIROD - yep, saw them in Thailand a few years ago when a UH-1 contract was up for bid by the Thai Army....

Haztoys · 06-28-2008, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by renrich

kruska, I hope your earlier post was not referring to me as I have tried to be respectful of your opinions even if I disagree. You do make statements without sufficient back up evidence sometimes such as the statement which Flyboy addressed above better than I could have. You say that the Bush approval ratings are evidence that your opinions are valid. Are you aware that the approval ratings of the US Congress are substantially lower than those of Bush. Would you then say that, since the majority of Congress seems to think the Iraq war was a mistake or has been mishandled, as you do, that your opinons are wrong since you appear to be in concert with Congress? Are you aware that Harry Truman's approval ratings, because of the Korean War, were lower than those of Bush(around 23%) and yet he is now rated among our best presidents? The Korean War is one of he reasons that Truman is highly rated and we still have troops on the ground there. Are you aware that Bush had an approval rating of less than 50% just prior to the last presidential election and he won that election with a majority of the popular vote? Did you know that Bill Clinton, a US president who was alledgely held in high esteem by your European compatriots, never won a majority of the popular vote? His approval ratings never fell to the level of Bush's. I make these points so that I may show you that approval ratings are pretty much irrelevant and are heavily influenced by the propaganda put out by the media and the opposing political party.

Some points I had know clue about ..I've often wondered How Bush would be doing if the Dems controingl in congress were trying to work with him and not trying to under mine his work..Its sad all push it off on Bush and never bring up Congress doing nothing but fighting him so they can get there guy in on this vote...Not that I'm a Bush fan ..And I know that if the shoe was on the other foot the Rep's would do the same to a Dem President...

Ex wifes and Presidents take decades to know if they were good or bad ..If you look at what Nixon did and not bring in Watergate he did alot ...And JFK was loved by the world and was a pig ..( my feelings on JFK)

Kruska · 06-28-2008, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haztoys

You real think theres a contract with G2G on arms ..?? Why would they ..I'm sure there was no contract with the Afghan RPG sells ... As on most back door arms sells ... You really think there would be ..?? "I" feel there would not ..

Look Haztoys, maybe I come round to you again as arrogant:

Why don't you read about the setup of a G2G business, before you outspeak things which are totally wrong.

Adlers I trust he was there over a news groups spin...US news or European news ..Syria had a nuke plant bombed by the Israels and guys here had to real dig to find it .. The only place I can could find it was on MSN news of all places..Not CNN or BBC..Why.... I guess Adler need not see what was there ... Ether the French sold the bombs in the back door ..Or there dump anuff to not keep an eye on were the arms go ..

Well, believe it or not - just as Adler on this occasion, I do not retrieve my knowledge from newspapers or CNN, is that so difficult for you to understand?
I've been here sents 05 ..And never had a run in with anyone ..You have been here a short time and have had a few ..

Simply because I have made statements that you and some fellow countrymen just don't like, and I don't give in to language abuse and other nonsense as I have seen many on this forum, especially if it is not in favor for US opinions or in contra to the general believe of certain people here.

And I'm glad I look at each sides BS and not just one ...

This is were the difference might come in between you and me, I do not look at peoples BS gladly, I will forward my opinion to it.

Regards
Kruska

Kruska · 06-28-2008, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by renrich

kruska, I hope your earlier post was not referring to me as I have tried to be respectful of your opinions even if I disagree. You do make statements without sufficient back up evidence sometimes

Hello renrich,

I am not aware about me having made a statement without sufficient back up. if it is just my opinion, well you are free to dissagree or ignore. My position towards Bush I think is very clear, for my part I have sufficient backup to be convienced.

But I think we are talking past each other. I am not trying to lecture or convience you about US policy or President Bush. I have forwarded to you what people in Europe generally feel and think about this topic. So has another guy from Brazil.

Now if you dissagree with this opinion, fine with me - but I do not think that we will be turned around in our opinion just as you will not move from yours.

So if you should state: Bush is super, the best the US ever had, I will state, no he is a naive fellow, and the present government is about the worst the USA ever had.

And I will prove it to you, and your answer might simply be: Total BS. Were is your proof? just BS?

Regards
Kruska

Haztoys · 06-28-2008, 02:30 PM

Kruska... I was really hopping you would answer the G2G and contracts and the back door sells ... I was really trying to be nice ...

And I trust the men who fight the Iraq war and had to deal with the back door arms ..Over the news your news or mine...I have friends over there and what they say is going on and what "I" read is not the same ..Sad...Its all good I'll let this pissing contest cool ..Before it gets carpet bombed ...Or the mods bomb my a$$...

Sorry if I've uppset the forum...

renrich · 06-28-2008, 03:03 PM

I will tell you why I think Bush has been a good president, not saying and have never said, the greatest. He took office when the economy was in recession ( a real one, not like the one the dimocrats and the media has been saying we were in for the last year.) He got through congress a tax cut which undoubtedly helped the nation recover from the recession and resulted in 52 months of GDP growth, a record. During his office the nation had to deal with 9-11 and two very destructive hurricanes and the economy has done well on the whole. He appointed and got confirmed two conservative supremes. If they had not been there I believe we would be dealing with a real problem now regarding our second amendment rights. He tried to deal with our social security problem(which is a time bomb) but congress would not face the problem. He likewise tried to deal with border security and illegal immigration but there was too much wrongheadedness in Congress and among conservative voters to have success in that area. Since 9-11 there has not been another terrorist event in the US. The US and our allies have deposed a brutal dictator in Saddam and have killed many Islamic terrorists both in Iraq and in Afghanistan. Our military appears to support the mission in Iraq as evidenced by reenlistment rates and according to anecdotal evidence. The office of the presidency has not been held up to ridicule because the occupant appears to be an honest and moral man. Those are all facts and you can dispute them if you like but they are facts not opinion!