What do you think of our current President?

[JugBR]

Originally Posted by freebird

Umm, nobody has put forward any "racist" statement by Gibson or O'Reilly, but that last remark was offensive to the "Gravity Challenged"

Somebody call the ACLU....

lolllllll

[renrich]

OK, FB, so you want a leader who is very intelligent and very experienced. Let us take a look at some good political leaders from the past. IMO Churchill was a great leader. He had a lot of experience in many areas but none in business, he was jounalist, a soldier and a politician but as far as intelligence he certainly did not do well in school. Reagan is rated as a very good leader. What was his experience? An actor, a radio host, a governor of a big state. Nobody ever accused him of being overly intelligent. It was said that he fell asleep at cabinet meetings. Abraham Lincoln was a small town lawyer, a politician, not especially a scholar. Of course your opinion of Bush is largely based on the media stereotype. I have read that many people when interviewing Bush one on one have been very impressed by his knowledge and grasp of the issues. One of those was Tony Blair who was rated as a good leader and a smart fellow until he sided with Bush on Iraq. Of course you disagree with me and Bush so you think he is in over his head. I disagree with you on this subject so IMO Bush will be graded as a very good president in retrospect, like Truman. I KNOW one thing! If Obama is elected, a few years from now, Bush is going to look very good to a lot of us.

[Njaco]

Ain't that the truth!

[pbfoot]

I hope some of you guys will accept this as humourous its not intended as a slur nor my opinion . I was looking up something on Bush and came across this
RESUME

GEORGE W. BUSH
1600 Pennsylvania Avenue
Washington, DC 20520

EDUCATION AND EXPERIENCE

LAW ENFORCEMENT
I was arrested in Kennebunkport, Maine, in 1976 for driving
under the influence of alcohol. I pled guilty, paid a fine, and had my driver's license suspended for 30 days. My Texas driving record has been "lost" and is not available.

MILITARY
I joined the Texas Air National Guard and went AWOL. I refused to take a drug test or answer any questions about my drug use. By joining the Texas Air National Guard I was not available for combat duty in Vietnam.

COLLEGE
I graduated from Yale University with a low C average. I was a cheerleader.

PAST WORK EXPERIENCE
I ran for U.S. Congress and lost. I began my career in the oil business in Midland, Texas, in 1975. I bought an oil company, but couldn't find any oil in Texas. The company went bankrupt shortly after I sold all my stock.

I bought the Texas Rangers baseball team in a sweetheart deal that took land using taxpayer money. With the help of my father and our friends in the oil industry, including Enron CEO Ken Lay, I was elected governor of Texas.

ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS GOVERNOR OF TEXAS
I changed Texas pollution laws to favor power and oil companies, making Texas the most polluted state in the Union. During my tenure, Houston replaced Los Angeles as the most smog-ridden city in America. I cut taxes and bankrupted the Texas treasury to the tune of billions in borrowed money. I set the record for the most executions by any governor in American history. With the help of my brother, the governor of Florida, and my father's appointments to the Supreme Court, I became President after losing by over 500,000 votes.

ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS PRESIDENT
I am the first President in U.S. history to enter office with a criminal record. I invaded and occupied two countries at a continuing cost of over one billion dollars per week.
I spent the U.S. surplus and effectively bankrupted the U.S. Treasury. I shattered the record for the largest annual deficit in U.S. history.
I set an economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in any 12-month period. I set the all-time record for most foreclosures in a 12-month period. I set the all-time record for the biggest drop in the history of the U.S. stock market.
In my first year in office over 2 million Americans lost their jobs and that trend continues every month.
I'm proud that the members of my cabinet are the richest of any administration in U.S. history. My "poorest millionaire," Condoleeza Rice, had a Chevron oil tanker named after her. I set the record for most campaign fund-raising trips by a U.S. President. I am the all-time U.S. and world record-holder for receiving the most corporate campaign donations. My largest lifetime campaign contributor, and one of my best friends, Kenneth Lay, presided over the largest corporate bankruptcy fraud in U.S. history, Enron.
My political party used Enron private jets and corporate attorneys to assure my success with the U.S. Supreme Court during my election decision. I have protected my friends at Enron and Halliburton against investigation or prosecution. More time and money was spent investigating the Monica Lewinsky affair than has been spent investigating one of the biggest corporate rip- offs in history.
I presided over the biggest energy crisis in U.S. history and refused to intervene when corruption involving the oil industry was revealed. I presided over the highest gasoline prices in U.S. history.
I changed the U.S. policy to allow convicted criminals to be awarded government contracts. I appointed more convicted criminals to administration than any President in U.S. history. I created the Department of Homeland Security, the largest bureaucracy in the history of the United States government.
I've broken more international treaties than any President in U.S. history. I am the first President in U.S. history to have the United Nations remove the U.S. from the Human Rights Commission. I withdrew the U.S. from the World Court of Law. I refused to allow inspectors access to U.S. "prisoners of war" detainees and thereby have refused to abide by the Geneva Convention.
I am the first President in history to refuse United Nations election inspectors (during the 2002 U.S. election).
I set the record for fewest numbers of press conferences of any President since the advent of television. I set the all-time record for most days on vacation in any one-year period. After taking off the entire month of August, I presided over the worst security failure in U.S. history.
I garnered the most sympathy for the U.S. after the World Trade Center attacks and less than a year later made the U.S. the most hated country in the world, the largest failure of diplomacy in world history.
I have set the all-time record for most people worldwide to simultaneously protest me in public venues (15 million people), shattering the record for protests against any person in the history of mankind.
I am the first President in U.S. history to order an unprovoked, pre-emptive attack and the military occupation of a sovereign nation. I did so against the will of the United Nations, the majority of U.S. citizens, and the world community. I have cut health care benefits for war veterans and support a cut in duty benefits for active duty troops and their families-in-wartime. In my State of the Union Address, I lied about our reasons for attacking Iraq and then blamed the lies on our British friends.
I am the first President in history to have a majority of Europeans (71%) view my presidency as the biggest threat to world peace and security. I am supporting development of a nuclear "Tactical Bunker Buster," a WMD. I have so far failed to fulfil my pledge to bring Osama Bin Laden [sic] to justice.

RECORDS AND REFERENCES
All records of my tenure as governor of Texas are now in my father's library, sealed and unavailable for public view All records of SEC investigations into my insider trading and my bankrupt companies are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public view. All records or minutes from meetings that I, or my Vice-President, attended regarding public energy policy are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public review. I am a member of the Republican Party.

PLEASE CONSIDER MY EXPERIENCE WHEN VOTING IN THE 2006 MIDTERM ELECTIONS. PLEASE SEND THIS TO EVERY VOTER YOU KNOW.

[Haztoys]

The Communist News Network..Hey A.D.I.G...Thats a good one ..Put that in the file for later..LOL

Or the one I like to say the BBC...British Bullsh^%t Channel

And all news these days has there spin...Yours mine and the rest ...Your a fool if you think other wise..

[davparlr]

Originally Posted by pbfoot

I hope some of you guys will accept this as humourous its not intended as a slur nor my opinion . I was looking up something on Bush and came across this

I think this is garbage.

[Njaco]

I actually think you could insert any politicians name in there, Pb.

[pbfoot]

Originally Posted by Njaco

I actually think you could insert any politicians name in there, Pb.

Could be , I was trying to find out if Pres Bush ever had a job getting dirty hands when he was a kid or in school

[Njaco]

I think that is a long gone sentiment when it comes to politicians.

[JugBR]

Originally Posted by pbfoot

COLLEGE
I graduated from Yale University with a low C average. I was a cheerleader.

lolllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by pbfoot

Could be , I was trying to find out if Pres Bush ever had a job getting dirty hands when he was a kid or in school

He probably didn't - but he did serve in the national guard and WAS NOT AWOL. I think the man is a pinhead but he did serve and was eventually discharged.

Updated: Additional information on Bush's flying hours released by the Pentagon September 2004. Additional information on Bush's "points" from Col. John H. Wambough, Jr. USAF (Ret.). Comments by Bush's commander from New York Times, Feb. 4, 2004. -- Dan Ford


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I'm happy to see the Good People rushing to the defense of the Air Guard. Their concern for the integrity of its training program is certainly touching, if a bit selective. (At left: all kitted out as a military pilot, the president was in great good cheer after landing on the Abraham Lincoln in May 2003.) To set the record straight, I've researched what is known about George Bush and his six years in the Texas Air National Guard. Given all the hoo-hah, it's fairly straightforward:

In the winter of 1968, a senior at Yale and about to lose his student deferment, Bush went to Westover Air Force Base in Massachusetts to be tested as a pilot candidate. He evidently scored in the 25th percentile as a pilot (qualifying, but just barely), in the 50th percentile as a navigator (promising material), and in the 95th percentile as an officer (outstanding).

He joined the Texas Air Guard on May 27, 1968, with the rank of Airman Basic--the lowest enlisted grade--and began basic training next day at Lackland Air Force Base near San Antonio. He served as an enlisted man for three months. (The formal term is Active Duty for Training.) On September 4, 1968, he was commissioned as a 2nd Lieutenant and assigned to the 111th Fighter Interceptor Squadron (147th FI Group) at Ellington AFB near Houston. He then took a leave of absence to work on Senate campaign in Florida, returning occasionally to Houston to attend Guard meetings at Ellington.

On November 21, 1968 he was sent to the 3550th Student Squadron at Moody AFB in Georgia for flight training. If he followed the usual regimen, he would have flown 30 hours in a T-41--a military version of the familar Cessna 172 "spam can"--before advancing to T-37 and T-38 jet trainers. At the end of his first year in the Air Guard, his 201 (personnel) file credited him with 226 days as an officer. Adding 95 days as an enlisted man, he served nearly eleven months during his first year in the Air Guard.

Bush graduated No. 23 out of the 53 pilots in his class at Moody. His father, then a Texas Congressman, gave the squadron's commencement speech in November 1969, and on November 30, 1969, Bush returned to the 111th FIS at Ellington AFB. Here he trained first in the Lockheed T-33--a trainer version of the famous F-80 Shooting Star fighter of the Korean War era--and finally in the F-102 Delta Dagger. This aircraft was designed to intercept Russian bombers coming over the North Pole. Instead of guns, it carried 6 radar-guided missiles and 24 unguided rockets in a fuselage weapons bay. It had a gross weight of 31,500 pounds, top speed of 810 miles per hour, and price tag of $1,184,000.

As is usual with military pilots, Bush also received a "commercial" certificate on Dec 8, 1969. He was rated for single- and multi-engine airplanes, and for flying on instruments without visual reference to the ground.

Says a frankly anti-Bush article in the Washington Post: "In December 1969, George W. returned to Houston to hone his skills and eventually fly solo on the all-weather F-102, firing its weapons and conducting intercept missions against supersonic targets. He learned with a verve that impressed his superiors, becoming the the first hometown graduate of the 147th's newly established Combat Crew Training School."

Bush got his pilot's wings in March 1970. (Again, this is somewhat unusual. He ought to have received them at the end of his flight training at Moody AFB.) For his second year in the Air Guard, his records credit him with 313 days of service. On June 23, he graduated from Combat Crew Training School, completing his active-duty career with a cumulative total of about 21 months in uniform. One source says that he "racked up approximately 300 hours of training flight time in the F-102."

Updated: Pentagon records released in September 2004 show that Bush flew a total of 326.4 hours as pilot-in-command over the three years 1970-1972. In addition, he was credited with 9.9 hours as co-pilot, presumably in a two-seat TF-102A trainer while qualifying to fly the supersonic jet. The records show Bush's last flight was in April 1972.

Bush recalls that toward the end of his training, he volunteered for the "Palace Alert" program which sent F-102 pilots to Europe and Asia for six-month tours. He was turned down, no doubt because he didn't have the flying time to qualify for the program. In any event, he couldn't have been sent to Southeast Asia to take part in the Vietnam War, at least not to fly a Delta Dagger: the F-102 detachments in Vietnam and Thailand were shut down in December 1969, before Bush got his wings.

Lt. Bush was now a "weekend warrior," flying the F-102A a few times a month with the 111th FIS. That evidently included night flying. A friend recalls that he kept off alcohol for 24 hours before such assignments. On November 7, 1970, he was promoted to 1st Lieutenant, following a glowing evaluation by his commander. Updated: As reported in February 2004 in the New York Times:

"In November 1970, the commander of the Texas Air National Guard, Lt. Col. Jerry B. Killian, called Mr. Bush, then 24, 'a dynamic outstanding young officer' who stood out as 'a top-notch fighter interceptor pilot' mature beyond his age.
"'Lt. Bush's skills far exceed his contemporaries,' Colonel Killian wrote in recommending that Mr. Bush be promoted to first lieutenant. 'He is a natural leader whom his contemporaries look to for leadership. Lt. Bush is also a good follower with outstanding disciplinary traits and an impeccable military bearing.'"

(This was the same Colonel Killian whose supposedly wrote the derogatory comments about Bush, featured in the forged documents that were broadcast by CBS News in September 2004.)

For his third year in the Air Guard his records credit him with 43 days as a 2nd Lieutenant and 3 at his new rank. (At one weekend a month, plus 15 days "summer camp," a Guardsman might be expected to serve 39 days a year.) This was serious duty: the 111th FIS was part of the Air Defense Command, and it kept two F-102As on runway alert at all times.

In the fall of 1971, Bush became a management trainee with a firm that acquired tropical plants. "We traveled to all kinds of peculiar places, like Apopka, Florida, which was named the foliage capital of the world," the Washington Post quoted his boss as saying. Once or twice a month, Bush would announce that he had flight duty and off he would go, sometimes taking his F-102 from Houston to Orlando and back. "It was really quite amazing," the boss said. "Here was this young guy making acquisitions of tropical plants and then up and leaving to fly fighter planes." However, during his fourth year as a Guardsman, Lt. Bush was credited with just 22 days on active duty. I'm surprised that the pilot of a supersonic plane could stay current at this pace, but there seems to be no doubt that he managed it.

In 1972, the 111th FIS transitioned to a new aircraft, the McDonnell-Douglas F-101B Voodoo fighter. According to Colonel William Campenni, then a lieutenant in the squadron: ""The Bush excusal in 1972 was further facilitated by a change in the unit's mission, from an operational fighter squadron to a training squadron with a new airplane, the F-101, which required that more pilots be available for full-time instructor duty rather than part-time traditional reservists with outside employment.

"The winding down of the Vietnam War in 1971 provided a flood of exiting active-duty pilots for these instructor jobs, making part-timers like Lt. Bush and me somewhat superfluous. There was a huge glut of pilots in the Air Force in 1972, and with no cockpits available to put them in, many were shoved into nonflying desk jobs. Any pilot could have left the Air Force or the Air Guard with ease after 1972 before his commitment was up because there just wasn't room for all of them anymore."

In 1972, the 111th FIS transitioned to a new aircraft, the McDonnell-Douglas F-101B Voodoo fighter. According to Colonel William Campenni, then a lieutenant in the squadron: ""The Bush excusal in 1972 was further facilitated by a change in the unit's mission, from an operational fighter squadron to a training squadron with a new airplane, the F-101, which required that more pilots be available for full-time instructor duty rather than part-time traditional reservists with outside employment.

"The winding down of the Vietnam War in 1971 provided a flood of exiting active-duty pilots for these instructor jobs, making part-timers like Lt. Bush and me somewhat superfluous. There was a huge glut of pilots in the Air Force in 1972, and with no cockpits available to put them in, many were shoved into nonflying desk jobs. Any pilot could have left the Air Force or the Air Guard with ease after 1972 before his commitment was up because there just wasn't room for all of them anymore."

[FLYBOYJ]

Part II

Lt. Bush logged his last flight in a F-102A in April 1972. (The 336 hours he had logged after graduating from flight training averaged out to about 12 hours a month, more than enough to stay sharp for flying, even at the intensity expected of a jet fighter pilot.) Then, on May 15, 1972, he "cleared" from Ellington to work on a senatorial campaign in Alabama. He expected to transfer to an inactive reserve squadron in Montgomery, but was turned down because an "obligated Reservist can be assigned to a specific Ready Reserve position only." The "absent without leave" and "deserter" charges leveled at Bush by political opponents involve this, his fifth year of service in the Air Guard.

To judge by recently released pay records, he did no military service in the summer of 1972, and on August 1, 1972, he was grounded for missing his annual flight physical. Then, in September, he was assigned to the 187th Tactical Reconnaissance Wing in Montgomery. This outfit too was transitioning to a new airplane, and may have had none on strength at the time. Bush's pay records credit him with 6 days' service in October and November, presumably in Montgomery. In the recent hoo-hah about his Guard record, several officers have come forward to say that they remember seeing or working with Bush at Dannelly airbase outside Montgomery. In his annual fitness report, his home-field rating officer noted that "He cleared this base [Ellington AFB] on 15 May 1972 and has been performing equivalent training in a non flying status with the 187th Tac Recon Gp, Dannelly ANG Base, Alabama." And he was certainly at Dannelly on January 6, 1973, when he had a signed and dated dental exam.

He spent most of that winter in Houston, working as a counselor with black youngsters. (Among the other web-log canards about Bush is that he rented a Cessna and took some of his youngsters flying. As the story is told, his handling of the aircraft was so erratic as to cast doubt that he'd ever qualified as a pilot. This rather overlooks the fact that it's impossible to rent an aircraft for a solo flight without at least having a student certicate and current medical, and rare to rent one without actually being checked out in person by a flight instructor.)

In any event, he was paid for 6 days in January, 2 in April, and 14 in May, for a total of 28 days' service during his fifth year--actually better than his fourth-year record. (There are no entries on Bush's 201 file of any time served during his fifth and sixth years in the Air Guard, giving web-loggers an opportunity to allege that he was AWOL for these two years. Some claim to have documents proving this allegation, but when I try to retrieve them, I get a "404" error or else the document says something else entirely. In any event, he indisputably did serve additional days beyond what is shown in the 201 file.)

In March I got this email comment from Stephen Prestwood: "Contrary to popular belief, Guard units do not necessarily drill one weekend every month, but rather average 2 Inactive Duty [training] days per month.... If a unit drills 4 days in one month, it probably would not drill the following month. Having been assigned in mid September it is reasonable to assume that Bush's first Drill in Alabama would be in October. The ARF Statement of Points Earned shows that Bush was credited with 2 Inactive Duty days in October and 4 Inactive Duty days in November. Therefore, it would be reasonable to assume that his unit did not drill in December. Bush is credited with 6 Inactive Duty days in January. Again, one would expect that his unit probably did not to drill again until April when Bush is again credited with 2 Inactive Duty days.... Looks like perfect drill attendance to me."

Updated: Here's a summary of the points Bush earned for each year of his National Guard service. He exceeded the minimum requirement each year, and over six years he earned three times as many points as was required of him:

May-68 to May-69
Minimum Annual Requirement - 50
ANG Points Earned by Lt. Bush - 253

May-69 to May-70
Minimum Annual Requirement - 50
ANG Points Earned by Lt. Bush - 340

May-70 to May-71
Minimum Annual Requirement - 50
ANG Points Earned by Lt. Bush - 137

May-71 to May-72
Minimum Annual Requirement - 50
ANG Points Earned by Lt. Bush -112

May-72 to May-73
Minimum Annual Requirement - 50
ANG Points Earned by Lt. Bush - 56

Jun -73 to Jul-73
Minimum Annual Requirement - 50
ANG Points Earned by Lt. Bush - 56

In May 1973, Bush took his last physical, which identified him as a "crew member on flight status," so he evidently wasn't grounded during his final year in the Guard. The pay records credit him with 5 days' service in June and 19 in July, for a sixth-year total of 24 days. According to another account, his last day in uniform was July 30, 1973.

Meanwhile, Bush was accepted at Harvard Business School, to begin classes in September. On October 2, 1973, he was transferred to an inactive unit in Colorado, and on November 21, 1974 he was formally discharged from the military. By my calculations had served the equivalent of 25 months on active duty, over a period of six and one-half years. (Perhaps the penalty for beging released from the Air Guard six months early was to serve an additional six months in the inactive reserve.)

The FAA records show that Bush doesn't have a current medical certificate, hence can no longer act as pilot-in-command. Whether he ever flew an aircraft after leaving the Air Guard isn't certain, though there's an unsubstantiated story that Karl Rove recalled flying with Bush when he first campaigned for governor of Texas. If so, that would have been in 1994. (Possibly Bush merely took the controls on that occasion, as he did when he landed on the Abraham Lincoln in 2003.)

If I were judging Bush on his career as a military officer, I would be inclined grade him much as his Yale professors did--with a "gentleman's C," which in this era of grade inflation would probably translate to a B-plus. His first three years seem exemplary; the last three, minimal, though far more distinguished than his opponents allege. I can't of course judge him as a pilot, except to doff my hat to anyone who handle a 16-ton warplane at 800 mph. By the time Bush left the Guard, 70 pilots had been killed flying the F-102. As fighter pilot Ed Rasimus points out: "Every time you kick the tires and light the fire in a single-engine, single-seat Century Series jet, it can kill you--all by itself without help from an enemy."

[renrich]

Flyboy, many thanks to you for this posting. It was very interesting. I have said this before on this forum. Anyone who flies in the military is worthy of respect and flying jets such as the 100 series was not a particularly safe job and required a certain amount mental toughness.

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by renrich

Flyboy, many thanks to you for this posting. It was very interesting. I have said this before on this forum. Anyone who flies in the military is worthy of respect and flying jets such as the 100 series was not a particularly safe job and required a certain amount mental toughness.

My pleasure Rich - as previously stated, I'm not a big Bush supporter but at the same time I'll defend his service record - the same goes for McCain. Bush missed going to Vietnam by the luck of the draw and he or his dad could not of prevented him from deploying if he was flying the right aircraft at the right time.

As far as his AWOL myth - more pinko BS. I was in the reserves and knew of the "point" system - 4 points for a drill weekend, 56 points for your 2 week deployment. I believe you needed 90 points for a "good year" when I was in. If you accumulated more points and met your commitment, your obligation was fulfilled and you could basically "walk out." That's exactly what I did when I found out my commitment was fulfilled (I was asked by my CO what it would take to make me stay, when I told him another stripe and he couldn't fulfill that request, it was "adios")

This happened to Bush - he served, fulfilled his commitment and left, plain and simple.

BTW - this is from the FAA website, airman registry

FAA Registry
Name Inquiry Results

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

GEORGE WALKER BUSH
Address

Address is not available
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Medical

No Medical Available

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Certificates

1 of 1

DOI: 12/8/1969
Certificate: COMMERCIAL PILOT

Rating(s):
COMMERCIAL PILOT
AIRPLANE SINGLE ENGINE LAND
AIRPLANE MULTIENGINE LAND
INSTRUMENT AIRPLANE

https://amsrvs.registry.faa.gov/airm...2655&certNum=1