What do you think of our current President?

[Aussie1001]

dam this page is huge it took me ages to get to the bottom of it...

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Originally Posted by Amsel

If you are not interested in your god given rights then you can give them away. You have no right to say others do not need them also. That is treason against fellow Americans. They are not your rights to give away. As a taxpaying American I am critical of this administration and that is my right to be, as long as we have that right , to be dissident.

Stop skirting around the subject and answer his questions. If you are going to make claims, back them up. That is all he asking you, yet you keep skirting around the subject.

[mkloby]

Originally Posted by Amsel

If you are not interested in your god given rights then you can give them away. You have no right to say others do not need them also. That is treason against fellow Americans. They are not your rights to give away. As a taxpaying American I am critical of this administration and that is my right to be, as long as we have that right , to be dissident.

I am interested in my rights. However, the Patriot Act does not infringe my rights. This is both my opinion and that of the vast majority of the judges as well.

Alright then - it seems we are done. It appears as though there is to your posts besides the routine rhetoric without backing up any statements or answering questions.

Again Amsel - that is not treason. Please look it up in the US Constitution.

[ToughOmbre]

Originally Posted by mkloby

Alright then - it seems we are done. It appears as though there is to your posts besides the routine rhetoric without backing up any statements or answering questions.

Amsel won't answer my question either. Nothing but non-stop moronic talking points.

Oh well.

TO

[Oreo]

I'm jumping in here very late, but going to the thread topic itself, I say I am lukewarm to GWB.

I voted for him twice. First in irresponsible ignorance, secondly in informed fear. I now regret my votes, both in the primaries, and in the general election.

Both times in the primaries I voted for him because I felt he had a chance against John McCain, and I knew without a shadow of a doubt that I did not want McCain.

What I did not realize the first time, and little realized the second time, was that Bush was just a more subtle version of McCain.

The two things I can not forgive until and unless he repents on the issues are:

1. Belief in allowing illegal immigration, and amnesty for illegals

2. Cooperating work toward a North American Union with Mexico and Canada, to give up our sovereignty.

A third big problem is his lack of aggressiveness in promotion of conservative ideas.

On the plus side, he has shown stability, he has encouraged some conservative ideas, he has avoided personal scandals, he has shown compassion to those in need, and, lately at last, he has used the veto pen and stood up to the Democrats somewhat, better late than never.

There is more that could be talked about-- oh one more bad thing, too much cooperation with Democrats regarding education-- but I think this post gets across my basic ideas about the man-- I think he's an extremely nice guy, I also think he is smarter than he appears, I also think he's very slippery and tries to be all things to all people, which scares me.

[Amsel]

Originally Posted by ToughOmbre

Amsel won't answer my question either. Nothing but non-stop moronic talking points.

Oh well.

TO

Don't be so smug yet. We are and will be paying for our "leaders" choices for some time to come. You are a staunch supporter of the Patriot acts and Bush. I will not argue you into believing that maybe he and the present congress is fallible. I believe that you may have a misplaced sense of loyalty to the man, but I could be wrong. You might know him better then I do.

I would have no issue with the Patriot act if it "sunsets" every 2 years and has to be pushed through again publically. I do not like the present executives and legislative branchs' agenda as far as immigration, energy, and national sovereignty. I am a bit of a nationalist in a time of internationalism so I tend to bump heads with opponants over key issues regarding the size and role of goverment.

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by Amsel

I would have no issue with the Patriot act if it "sunsets" every 2 years and has to be pushed through again publically. I do not like the present executives and legislative branchs' agenda as far as immigration, energy, and national sovereignty. I am a bit of a nationalist in a time of internationalism so I tend to bump heads with opponants over key issues regarding the size and role of goverment.

Ya got a point - just picture Janet Reno with the Patriot Act - she'd round up a lot more Cuban kids involved in custody battles with it!

[Oreo]

Originally Posted by Amsel

I would have no issue with the Patriot act if it "sunsets" every 2 years and has to be pushed through again publically. I do not like the present executives and legislative branchs' agenda as far as immigration, energy, and national sovereignty. I am a bit of a nationalist in a time of internationalism so I tend to bump heads with opponants over key issues regarding the size and role of goverment.

I'm starting to like you, Amsel!

[Oreo]

Originally Posted by ToughOmbre

Amsel won't answer my question either. Nothing but non-stop moronic talking points.

Oh well.

TO

At least he doesn't stand alone. Insult me along with him, please. I'm good for it.

[ToughOmbre]

Originally Posted by Amsel

Don't be so smug yet. We are and will be paying for our "leaders" choices for some time to come. You are a staunch supporter of the Patriot acts and Bush. I will not argue you into believing that maybe he and the present congress is fallible. I believe that you may have a misplaced sense of loyalty to the man, but I could be wrong. You might know him better then I do.

Where did I state that I'm a staunch supporter of Bush? Look again at the poll votes; I said I'm "lukewarm" with regard to the president.

"Smug"? How so?

"You might know him better then I do." Again, how so?

And you STILL haven't answered my question about habeas corpus, so I'm done asking.

TO

[ToughOmbre]

Originally Posted by Oreo

At least he doesn't stand alone. Insult me along with him, please. I'm good for it.

I didn't "insult" him, nor would I insult you. I said his talking points were moronic, that's all.

TO

[freebird]

Originally Posted by Oreo

What I did not realize the first time, and little realized the second time, was that Bush was just a more subtle version of McCain.

The two things I can not forgive until and unless he repents on the issues are:

1. Belief in allowing illegal immigration, and amnesty for illegals

2. Cooperating work toward a North American Union with Mexico and Canada, to give up our sovereignty.

A third big problem is his lack of aggressiveness in promotion of conservative ideas.

Uh, so if you can't vote for McCain would you prefer Obama?

[renrich]

Dav, you are the man. I have thoroughly enjoyed your clear and well thought out arguments in this debate. Many thanks and I am voting for you to win a medal. The far left is a clear and present danger to our country but the far right sometimes is conservatism's own worst enemy. In times of war extreme measures are sometimes necessary and lovers of liberty tremble. Standing on principle and losing the crucial battle for existence does not make much sense to me. In bitching and moaning about the loss of liberty under Bush, I have heard no one mention the civil rights of the Japanese Americans in WW2 that were violated. Now there was real travesty but perhaps understandable under the circumstances. FB, you can be absolutely certain that if another 9-11 type attack takes place in the US between now and the next 6 months or so, Bush will get the blame. Since neither you nor I know what goes on behind the scenes, I am inclined to give him and all the incompetents, (according to you) in his administration a lot of credit for no attacks.

[freebird]

Originally Posted by renrich

Dav, you are the man. I have thoroughly enjoyed your clear and well thought out arguments in this debate. Many thanks and I am voting for you to win a medal.

Yes I agree, a good debate, and skillful debater.

Originally Posted by renrich

The far left is a clear and present danger to our country but the far right sometimes is conservatism's own worst enemy.

Quite often true, I agree

Originally Posted by renrich

Standing on principle and losing the crucial battle for existence does not make much sense to me.

Yes and I would agree with that too.

Originally Posted by renrich

FB, you can be absolutely certain that if another 9-11 type attack takes place in the US between now and the next 6 months or so, Bush will get the blame.

Of course Ren, Bush is to blame for EVERYTHING, from the sinking of Atlantis to the extinction of the Unicorns....

Originally Posted by renrich

Since neither you nor I know what goes on behind the scenes, I am inclined to give him and all the incompetents, (according to you) in his administration a lot of credit for no attacks.

I think a large part of the problem can also be that your system does not "hold over" skilled & wise men with foreign policy experience, each new administration starts almost from scratch, and is often moving in a new direction.

[Amsel]

I am critical of any goverment worker. As long as our wages support the goverment we need to be critical of it's actions. I am not a Bush basher, but I am going to be critical of his decisions the same as I would be of a liberals decision. I do not follow blindly and my allegiance must be earned. I know what a good administration does as well as a bad administration.

I do feel very safe at home from terrorist attacks, but I do not want to sell our rights cheaply. As long as Americans are not labeled as terrorists then maybe the Patriot act is a good thing. The problem is human nature. How long do we need a patriot act. If I disagree strongly with an American regime am I going to be labeled a terrorist? If Americans want to overthrow an American regime are they going to be labeled as terrorists? Probably! It is always good to have checks and balances and a transparent goverment if we are to remain free.