What do you think of our current President?

[pbfoot]

I think that its bad for a Pres to be able to pardon anyone . You did the crime so do the time

[drgondog]

Originally Posted by pbfoot

What would upset me is that a man in his position lied to a Grand Jury and then gets pardoned it pales the Paris Hilton crap. I guess it proves Aldous Huxley correct some animals are more equal then others

Well, he hasn't been pardoned (yet), he is still a felon, has lost his ability to practice law and pays 250K.

Look to other examples of 'pardons' during the last days of the Clinton Presidency and reflect that Clinton lied to a Grand Jury but also served no jail time..

[pbfoot]

Please name one man that got caught cheating with a women and admitted it initially .

[renrich]

Clinton did not lie to the grand jury initially. He lied to the American public on TV initially. The lying he did to the grand jury came later, much later. I don't believe that Libby lied to the grand jury but rather he made mistatements to federal investigators that were later proven because the prosecutor took the word of a TV personality over Libby's. Clinton was convicted of perjury. Libby of obstruction of justice but there was no underlying crime commited so I wonder how he obstructed justice?

[Jugulator]

AMen, renrich, you said what was on my mind.

And again, how come Sandy Burglar got off on a misdemeanor for destroying government documents from the clinton administration?

[Jugulator]

That pisses me off to no end

[syscom3]

Part of Bush's self inflicted wounds were simply to hold onto too many Clinton era officers in the State Dept and DOJ, and other agencies.

The fault is his for not having his subordinates identify the Clintonites that were still driven by ideology and not for what was best for the administration.

No excuses!

[bomber]

How about those that justified a war based on Iraq having weapons of mass destruction ?

Or the people that destroy documentation detailing US tortour flights stoping in the UK ?

Lieing about an afair with a woman is unacceptable whereas lieing in the above example is ?

We need to take a step back and reasses just what we expect from our politicians.....

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by bomber

How about those that justified a war based on Iraq having weapons of mass destruction ?

As posted numerous times on this site by those who witnessed it first hand, there were WMDs found in Iraq - not to the levels as advertised but they were found and in addition, that wasn't the sole reason why war was waged against Iraq.

Originally Posted by bomber

Or the people that destroy documentation detailing US tortour flights stoping in the UK ?

You mean torture? Oh those CIA flights. OK - Perhaps they were related to some of the same people who just tried to bomb your country.

Originally Posted by bomber

Lieing about an afair with a woman is unacceptable whereas lieing in the above example is ?

It is when you're called before a congressional under oath - although the whole thing was a witch hunt you're still under oath to testify, whether it be for getting a bad blow job or putting your underwear on backwards.

Originally Posted by bomber

We need to take a step back and reasses just what we expect from our politicians.....

I don't know about your country but here I expect them to serve the country and the people first. Here there are too many career politicans who are after their own interest or the interest of special groups or orgainzations.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Originally Posted by bomber

How about those that justified a war based on Iraq having weapons of mass destruction ?

If you want to discuss that do it in the multiple threads that we have for that. We dont need to destroy this thread based off only using one side of the truth and not all the truth.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ

As posted numerous times on this site by those who witnessed it first hand, there were WMDs found in Iraq - not to the levels as advertised but they were found and in addition, that wasn't the sole reason why war was waged against Iraq.
You mean torture? Oh those CIA flights. OK - Perhaps they were related to some of the same people who just tried to bomb your country.
It is when you're called before a congressional under oath - although the whole thing was a witch hunt you're still under oath to testify, whether it be for getting a bad blow job or putting your underwear on backwards.
I don't know about your country but here I expect them to serve the country and the people first. Here there are too many career politicans who are after their own interest or the interest of special groups or orgainzations.

Exactly FBJ. I just love the people that love to the point the finger but dont look in there own backyard as if there country does no wrong....

[drgondog]

Originally Posted by bomber

How about those that justified a war based on Iraq having weapons of mass destruction ?

Bomber - your government, the Russian and French Governments believed Iraq had WMD. The Clinton administration believed they had WMD, the CIA director Tenant who bridged both Clinton and Bush administration believed the Iraqi's had WMD - for you to state Bush was lying (and here you are free to express an opionion) you would have to find CIA and MI5 and KGB analysts with some credibility that spanned both administrations and would state unequivocally their credentials and their knowledge that a.) they were in place before Bush (otherwise Clinton, Kerry, Albright, Cohen jointly lied) and they were disposed of after Bush was in office and they so informed Bush, Tenant, Powell, etc that Iraq had disposed of them

Absent that you are pretty much thinking with another part of your body other than brain?

Or the people that destroy documentation detailing US tortour flights stoping in the UK ?

Facts, dates, times places, names please?

Lieing about an afair with a woman is unacceptable whereas lieing in the above example is ?

Lying to a Grand Jury then lying to a Federal Judge in a multi million dollar lawsuit is neither acceptable nor condoned. Clinton lied to American People for political reasons, he lied to a Judge for $$$

We need to take a step back and reasses just what we expect from our politicians.....

Start with hanging most until they demonstrate integrity and a desire to do the best thing with respect to the US Constitution - measure them all the same way Repub/Dem and Independent.

Immediate due process for expulsion from Congress when caught in a lie - simply prove the statement was untrue and/or misleading - any citizen can bring the charge to make sure that Congress doesn't close ranks

Immediate expulsion from profession (either law or journalism or ?) for lying about Congressman.

Put our politicians on Social Security and strip them of the retirement and medical benefits they enjoy today and make them retire and medicate as ordinary Americans do.

That's a start.

Regards,

[mkloby]

FBJ - you say it all too well. I find it VERY difficult to trust a "career politician."

Bomber - come on pal... that comment about the Dixie Chicks shows complete lack of understanding regarding American culture. Nashville is overwhelmingly conservative. It always was, and always will be. The Dixie Chicks decided to speak politically, and the consumer was not happy. Furthermore, they embroiled themselves in a slugfest with Toby Keith, one of the biggest country stars, who also is very active in his support for the US military. I believe they even wore shirts that said "F.U.T.K." at a concert. All of this combined caused radio listeners to call up radio stations and tell them, "We don't want you to play the Dixie Chicks."

Guess what - Nashville as a whole responded to the customers' desires. Radio stations stopped spinning the Dixie Chicks. They really have disappeared, for the most part, from the country music scene. That's a perfect example of the FREE MARKET, but perhaps you disagree with that concept as well.

Originally Posted by drgondog

Start with hanging most until they demonstrate integrity and a desire to do the best thing with respect to the US Constitution - measure them all the same way Repub/Dem and Independent.

Immediate due process for expulsion from Congress when caught in a lie - simply prove the statement was untrue and/or misleading - any citizen can bring the charge to make sure that Congress doesn't close ranks

Immediate expulsion from profession (either law or journalism or ?) for lying about Congressman.

Put our politicians on Social Security and strip them of the retirement and medical benefits they enjoy today and make them retire and medicate as ordinary Americans do.

That's a start.

Regards,

Drgondog - some good thoughts. Politicians seem to want to do the best thing for themselves; the US Constitution is usually an afterthought. With regard to expulsion from a profession - I believe that's a bit much... of course they should be charged and penalized for libel/slander as applicable.

[drgondog]

Originally Posted by mkloby

Drgondog - some good thoughts. Politicians seem to want to do the best thing for themselves; the US Constitution is usually an afterthought. With regard to expulsion from a profession - I believe that's a bit much... of course they should be charged and penalized for libel/slander as applicable.

obviously some tongue in cheek, but neither Journalists nor (seemingly) anyone else are subject to libel laws as politiicans are 'public figures' - At the very least I would like to see that loophole 'fixed' and hold such people accountable for repeating 'what they heard' as facts when attacking public figures - left or right - or making statements they a.) have not verified as facts, personally or b.) know to be incorrect - and are subsequently found to be incorrect. Opinions are different when presented as an opinion.

The lying and personal character and reputation destruction frenzy (left and right) are examples of 1st Amendment 'Rights' which are way beyond what I believe the Founding Fathers had in mind.

Our airways and newspapers are swamps and cesspools with rare to zero accountability and duels are no longer sanctioned redress.

Often wrong, never uncertain..

Regards,

Bill

[pbfoot]

I agree that journalists should be held accountable . We have a new law in Canada whereby any politician or beauracrat cannot join in any lobby group for for 5 years after leaving office