What do you think of our current President?

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Originally Posted by n2dabloo

The Soviet/Afghani war was a great way for the U.S. to try out their latest weapons against Russia. We figured out real quick that a Redeye (later Stinger) could knock a Hind out of the sky in a heartbeat. We also witnessed first hand the Soviets use of their latest Chem/bio weapons. Live and learn I guess. I was in southern Germany during most of the 80s (active duty)

And what better way to test them, then on your enemies. As Joe has pointed out, back in those times we did not know what was going to happen today.

Can you predict the future?

Where in southern Germany were you stationed at?

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by n2dabloo

The Soviet/Afghani war was a great way for the U.S. to try out their latest weapons against Russia. We figured out real quick that a Redeye (later Stinger) could knock a Hind out of the sky in a heartbeat. We also witnessed first hand the Soviets use of their latest Chem/bio weapons. Live and learn I guess. I was in southern Germany during most of the 80s (active duty)

Then you should know better than most of us that it was a very different world then.

I'm not defending Bush - I think Chris (adler) nailed it in his statement and he was in Iraq. At the same time the greatest disservice you could to to a US solder is to place that individual into a vague "police action" as was done in Iraq.

As far as the Patriot Act - much to do about nothing. The day I see road blocks at the end of my street and guys with black fatigues checking people's ID, then I'll worry........

[renrich]

IMO terrorists don't have any rights as POWs and the Geneva Convention does not apply to them. It seems that a good portion of the US military disagrees with you on your Bush bashing.

[n2dabloo]

I was at the Eberhardt Finck Kaserne in Grossengstingen, near Reutlingen (Baden Wurtemburg) Later stationed at the Fliegerhorst Kaserne in Hanau for 4 years. Germany is a wonderful country, sure miss it. I still get routed thru Frankfurt from time to time in transit to work. Thats my golden opportunity to enjoy a Heiffe Weizen and german cuisine.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Originally Posted by n2dabloo

I was at the Eberhardt Finck Kaserne in Grossengstingen, near Reutlingen (Baden Wurtemburg) Later stationed at the Fliegerhorst Kaserne in Hanau for 4 years. Germany is a wonderful country, sure miss it. I still get routed thru Frankfurt from time to time in transit to work. Thats my golden opportunity to enjoy a Heiffe Weizen and german cuisine.

Yes I know where both places are. I lived in the Stuttgart area in the 80s and 90s and I used to fly missions to Hanau weekly.

[Haztoys]

Originally Posted by n2dabloo

Bush will go down as the worst president that the United States has ever had. He chose a time when America was reeling in anger over the attack of 9/11 to push through an unjustified war. The terrorists on those planes were Saudis and Egyptians. The person that took full responsibility for those attacks was Osama Bin Laden, trained by the U.S. C.I.A. during the Soviet/Afghani war of the 80s. We went in under the sole justification of an ominous threat of WMDs that have yet to be found. The U.S. has the best satellites in the world, not to mention other devices to monitor the movement of vehicles, warheads, etc. Rumsfeld made claim that he knew exactly where and how many WMDs there were. Not to mention his downplay of the Geneva Convention that will go on to haunt the U.S. military for years to come. Lies followed lies, the sheep ate the lies, and now, even the sheep are starting to question the motives of this war. There will never be a dreamy westernized democracy in Iraq. We started this without any clear cut objectives and made up the rules as we went along like a jail-house poker game. I am a veteran of the U.S. military. It pains me to see our soldiers used in such a way. Now, we have a legitimate threat from Iran, but unfortunately our forces are spread too thin elsewhere at the time. What are we to do now? Also, I lived in Gulfport Mississippi during the worst natural disaster to ever strike the United States (Hurricane Katrina). I watched this excuse for a presidents slow reaction to the same. Inexcusable reaction. Period. People died needlessly. There was no leadership or use made of available resources. Thanks to the Patriot Act, everything I'm writing is open to the powers that be, guess what, I don't give a rats @$$

And you are a fool if you think we would not be fighting in the sand agains the terrorist at this point your nuts ...They all support terror pic a country ...Its what they export in the Mid East ... And Hussein was a WMD in his self ..We fight this fight or are kids will have too..Great some one who thinks you can make friends with these mad bastards .. I hate war and not really a Bush fan..The terrorist are so rapped up in fighting on there own lands there not in are back yard ..Presidents take decades to say if there good or bad ...Decades.......

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

No offense Haz but I am having trouble following your posts lately. Dont take me wrong, I am not an english scholar, just having trouble reading your fragmented posts.

[n2dabloo]

Haz, let me retort in a civil manner here. One of the chief differences between a terrorist and a soldier: A soldier represents a country, no gray area there as to whom to retaliate against, whereas a terrorist typically represents an ideal of some sort and not any particular country per se. Which country is exporting terrorism? You said if we don't fight this fight our kids will have to. Hmm. Well, pointless to argue that, but I do know our children and their children will be paying for this war. I'm curious to see how the textbooks in their schools will portray just how this war came to be. "The terrorist are so rapped up in fighting on there own lands". Well the two main religious sects are definitely warring against each other there and undoubtedly will continue to do so. Lately I read where the pseudo government there wants to restrict the coalition forces in their movements. Wow, thats a twist. Anyway, my intention is not to start or be involved in a flame war of any kind here, just stating my opinion on the president. On a different not, The Eagle has Landed, cool nick...

[renrich]

To me, these terrorists, including the ones who were responsible for 9-11, blowing up innocent civilians with no pretense of military targets are vermin and should be exterminated. I have great respect for our military and their dedication to the mission. It is beyond my understanding how anyone could believe these miscreants should be treated like ordinary felons and once captured should have any rights whatsoever.

[Soundbreaker Welch?]

I watch Foxnews.

I do wonder how long Bill O'Reilly can stay tops. That may be why he will be retiring in a few years, (he told some newspaper that.)


I hope Bush can capture or kill Osama Bin Laden before he leaves. Obama doesn't seem like the type that would do it.

[freebird]

Originally Posted by renrich

I will tell you why I think Bush has been a good president, not saying and have never said, the greatest. He took office when the economy was in recession ( a real one, not like the one the dimocrats and the media has been saying we were in for the last year.) He got through congress a tax cut which undoubtedly helped the nation recover from the recession and resulted in 52 months of GDP growth, a record. During his office the nation had to deal with 9-11 and two very destructive hurricanes and the economy has done well on the whole. He appointed and got confirmed two conservative supremes. If they had not been there I believe we would be dealing with a real problem now regarding our second amendment rights. Since 9-11 there has not been another terrorist event in the US. The US and our allies have deposed a brutal dictator in Saddam and have killed many Islamic terrorists both in Iraq and in Afghanistan. Our military appears to support the mission in Iraq as evidenced by reenlistment rates and according to anecdotal evidence.He tried to deal with our social security problem(which is a time bomb) but congress would not face the problem.

Originally Posted by renrich

He likewise tried to deal with border security and illegal immigration but there was too much wrongheadedness in Congress and among conservative voters to have success in that area.

I think that the "conservative voters" were right on this one, his "amnesty plan" was a bad idea. When he was told the plan was supported by Kennedy & Kerry but opposed by conservative Republicans he should have realized that. To support the idea of giving citizenship to 15 - 20 million illegals who will then vote mainly democratic he must have had a screw loose...

Originally Posted by renrich

The office of the presidency has not been held up to ridicule because the occupant appears to be an honest and moral man.

Sorry Ren, he is not ridiculed for being a honest & moral man, he is ridiculed for being seen as an arrogant, stubborn, dim-witted Texas Governor who is under the thumb of the Neo-cons

Originally Posted by Kruska

IMO Bush is just a naïve guy who is a puppet dangling on Cheney’s and Rumsfeld's strings.
Kruska

Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ

That sums it up perfectly!!!!!!
If the Republicans lose it will be because of the likes of Cheney and Rumsfeld - for the most part i doubt you'll see them around any more.

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

I have stated many many times before that the situation is terrible. I have seen it with my own eyes. I do however support the war. The problem in my mind, comes from the terrible mismanagement of the war by our government and higher command.

I think alot of conservatives are disappointed with his leadership & managment.

Originally Posted by renrich

Chris, from someone who has been there, your remarks have incredible weight compared to the media and distant observers like me and others on this forum. Thank you!

I don't think you can use re-enlistment rates as an indicator of the Armed forces support for the Bush's leadership, because many support the mission but are disappointed with the poor planning and weak leadership at the top during the war. {I think that is what DerAdler was saying}


I think the main duties of the President, and what he will be judged on:

1. Foreign Policy

2. Military Leadership {as Commander in chief}

3. Judicial Appointments

4. Executive managment

5. The "Veto power"

6. Policy leadership {ideas, working with Congress}

7. Legacy

Originally Posted by renrich

I will tell you why I think Bush has been a good president,

Now I will tell you why I think Bush has been a disaster for the Conservative movement in the US.

Alot of people will agree that #1 has been a failure. Most of the world solidly supported Bush and the USA after 9-11. He was in a rush to invade Iraq, spurning efforts to reach a compromise with Germany & France before the invasion because he was told by Cheney & Rumsfeld that the invasion would be quick and easy, a "piece of cake". They had this idea that they would be cheered as liberators and quickly set up a pro-western state in Iraq, ignoring the basic facts about the Middle East. Instead of trying to reach a compromise with the European Allies, Bush was seen as arrogant with a "my way or the highway" attitude.

His appointment of Paul Bremer to handle Iraq was a disaster.

Instead of putting fear into Iran, N. Korea and others by quickly demonstrating US military superiority, they have shown the world that a small, poorly equipped rag-tag bunch of insurgents can tie up the bulk of the available US ground troops.

While the USA is tied up in Iraq, the "Axis of Evil" have been emboldened to challenge the world with nuclear developments.

Russia, which along with China have also taken advantage of the weakened military power of the US. What I mean by this is that with 100,000's of troops tied up in Iraq {either serving, returning or preparing deployment} the rest of the world knows that US threats of large intervensions are not possible while still dealing with Iraq.



With #2 the policies of Rumsfeld downsizing the military have put a strain on troops & their families.

The 3+ year delay to get body armour for the troops & shielding for the Hummers is inexcusable.

The attitude of the White house before losing the '06 elections was "stay the course", and trying to deny that there was anything wrong in Iraq. This gave the impression that the White House was "asleep at the switch".

Cheney & Rumsfeld's policy of ignoring or dismissing Generals that disagreed with them or offered any warnings was very stupid and resulted in a lack of good advice at the top. I refer to Generals Powell, Shinseki, Zinni, Admiral Fallon and others.


As regards to #3, I could perhaps give him half marks for getting 2 good judges appointed. However, Bush's idea of an "ideal" candidate was not Justice Roberts or Alito, but Harriet Myers.

His appointment of his crony Gonzales to Attorney General and his resignation was also an embarrassment and made the White House look foolish & inept.

Also by threatening to use the judical "nuclear option" they have now given the Democrats a good excuse to use this in the future.

[freebird]

Originally Posted by freebird

.

4. Executive managment

5. The "Veto power"

6. Policy leadership {ideas, working with Congress}

7. Legacy

#4 - The managment of the government.

The lack of solid enforcement of the border laws for most of his presidency has allowed the problems to continue.

His praise of FEMA head Brown's good management during hurricane Katrina at the same time as the agency was losing control made him look uncaring and out-of touch.

The issue of handling Iraq contracts, with fraud and waste, does not look good.

#5 The first veto threatened by the president was for a bill passed by Congress forbidding Dubai from controlling major US ports. He failed to veto the "pork" passed by the Republican Congress, the "Bridge to Nowhere" being just one example. When the Republican President & Congress fail to control spending it undermines the Conservatives claim to be the party of fiscal responsibility.



# 7 This is the main one!

Because of the actions of President Bush, the voters are so turned off by his policies that the Republicans have lost control of both houses of Congress, and now close to having the most liberal member of the Senate elected as President. EVEN IF Iraq turns out as well as Bush hopes, {which I seriously dout it will} IS THIS WORTH having the Democrats grab control of Congress & the White House, appoint 2 or 3 liberal wingnuts to the Supreme Court, gut the military, give citizenship to 20 million illegals, etc, etc?

I say that achieving temporary stability in a dubious Iraqi ally is nowhere near worth the cost.

[renrich]

Oh well. You know all about opinions and other things. Everyone has one. Time will tell. if I was going to be here 25 or 30 years from now I would make you a sizable bet about the judgment of histroy. By the way it wasn't amnesty in any sense of the word. There were a bunch of hoops that no way were 10 or 20 M illegals were going to jump through. It is amazing to me that so many so called conservatives use the same tactics that liberals use by describing something they don't like in disingenuous terms so that it will be unpopular. I have never heard of any war plan, battle plan or business plan that did not have flaws in it and truth to tell, there has never been one. It won't make any difference how successful the Iraq deal turns out the Bush bashers will never give Bush any credit. Thank goodness we had him and not Gore. Adios.

[Njaco]

Freebird, I admit that I agree with most of your post. Its a shame I wish I knew how much his "advisors" were really screwing up his head and decisions.

And Ren, you know I agree with you but Free made some good points in referencing Dubai and FEMA, among others. Those acts made my head spin!

[renrich]

I see nothing wrong with letting a foreign country taking some of the money they have earned in the oil business and investing it in the US, just like they do every day with our government securities. Dubai has been a staunch friend of ours for sometime. FEMA is a typical big government agency. It makes no difference who is president or who is the director, it will always be a unwieldy bureaucracy. Who says they botched up the New Orleans Katrina deal, the media and the dimocrats. It seems that FEMA was pretty effective, according to the infallible dimocrats and media (since they did not criticise the operations there), in Miss. next door in the same catastrophe. If there was ever a red herring, FEMA and Katrina was it. What does being a Texas governor have to do with anything. Does that mean that no one from Texas can be "smart" enough to be president. How does one know that Harriet Myers would not have been a good Supreme? All the negatives about Bush add up to the fact that he is a human being and not infallible. If the qualifications for being president include being infallible, we should abolish the office, because there is no one out there. George W's biggest weakness is that he is not a great public speaker. We had a good speech maker for 8 years in Slick Willy. I will take Bush. Last point, around 30% of those polled still think Bush is doing a good job. Put on your thinking cap and try to guess who those people are. I know a lot of them and I like the company!