What should be the policy of the US as regards illegal immigrants.

[joy17782]

IM sure as the hell not saying that we should kill them !! My god what ever made you compare us and the nazis ? Im saying this they broke the federal laws , all of them are ILLEGALS!! thats the thing RENRICH anything after that is pointless too talk about , why give them guest worker or a greencard , if they wanted too do it right,they would have done that route instead of jumping the border, And there kids well i would say ship them back too , if the parents are here illegally then that sums that arguement up, Say im heartless I dont care but its Bullshit .GO down too mexico without a passport and see if the mexs treat you like we treat there people !!! at least when we ship them back we treat them like humans , too even say we would be like the nazis is so out there that it makes me laugh !!!! UDET that is right too it comes down too people makeing money , i say employer,s who hire illegals should get fined alot and even jail, hey i dont hate them , but christ sakes they broke are laws and dont give a crap. and they think we owe them something like a free pass not in my book, you know we can argue this all night long but i dont want too do that ok, thats why it is america were allowed too exspress are views , and i say as long as you respect the other person then its ok , but my piont has been made and i understand yours . but i would never advocate a program like the nazis did NEVER

[renrich]

I never implied that you or anyone else said kill them. I said round them up. The Nazis had to round up everyone and send them to camps before they did anything else. Do you know how they did that? And they had a much smaller country to do it in with a much more regimented population. Ultimately the key is to have no jobs available for anyone unless they are a citizen or have guest worker documentation. By the way, I have never knowingly employed an illegal immigrant but I feel certain some of my sub contractors have. It is a simple economic fact, that if one is producing a product such as a house, one hires the sub who produced the best work for the most competitive price. If you don't do it that way, you won't be in business long because all the other builders are going to be doing it that way.

[Njaco]

Pulled a couple of things from around the internet. Now I understand the falicy of the net and I'm not advocating what is here but some good points and some sites to take a look at.

This seemed to be a good place to start.
Center for Immigration Studies

CALIFORNIA:
A 2004 study from the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) examined the costs of education, health care and incarceration of illegal aliens, and concluded that the costs to Californians is $10.5 billion per year. Among the key findings of the report were that the state's K-12 education system spent approximately $7.7 billion a year to school the children of illegal aliens who now constitute 15 percent of the student body. Another $1.4 billion of the taxpayers' money went toward providing health care to illegal aliens and their families, the same amount that is spent incarcerating illegal aliens criminals.

The California Department of Justice provided: 98 percent of all illegal immigrants who are deported for committing felonies in California will eventually return to the state, and of that number, 40 percent will commit crimes again.

At present in-state college tuition rates are available to undocumented immigrants as long as they meet other standards such as residency requirements.

NEW YORK
Benefits available to illegals
*
Workforce Investment Act (WIA) – Provides job search assistance, counseling, assessment and training services to eligible workers, including employed and unemployed adults and youth. Undocumented workers are only eligible for WIA “core services” including self-directed job search assistance and placement since registration is not required. If services require registration and enrollment, typically for assessment, counseling and training, undocumented workers are not eligible.

Food Stamps – Undocumented workers are not eligible. However, New York recently received a waiver from the Department of Agriculture for the Disaster Food Stamp Benefit program. The program does not mention benefit status, and New York is promoting the program as available to all who were affected by the 9/11 terrorist attacks.

Medicaid - Undocumented workers are only eligible for emergency medical services. However, all immigrants are eligible for the New York Family Health Plan for the next four months. New York has also elected to cover other groups of immigrants, including undocumented pregnant women.

State Children’s Health Insurance Program (SCHIP)- A few states have extended SCHIP to “unqualified children.”

COBRA Insurance Coverage – Both legal and illegal immigrants are eligible for COBRA if they participated in a group health plan with an employer having over 20 employees.

Women, Infants and Children Program (WIC) – Immigrants of any status who are otherwise eligible may receive WIC food supplements.

School Lunch Program – Immigrant children are eligible for the school lunch program regardless of status.

Regarding the work status - illegal immigrants tend to have low skill levels, which means they end up in jobs in agriculture, construction, household services, landscaping, low-end manufacturing, or restaurants and lodging.

Illegal immigrants, by virtue of their low income levels and their tenuous attachment to the legal economy, don't pay all that much in taxes. Yet their kids still attend school and their U.S.-born kids still get access to Medicare. What does this mean for the net fiscal consequences of illegal immigration? The Center for Immigration Studies, an anti-immigration think tank, estimates that the short-run net fiscal impact of illegal immigration is negative.

Immigration's Costs -- And Benefits - WSJ.com

and here is a doozy. If you are here legally and have a relative here illegally and who is over 65 they can get SSI. Illegals who may have entered the U.S. illegally but permanently reside here under color of law ("PRUCOL" aliens), have been able to hold on to SSI eligibility through a combination of lawyering and lobbying."PRUCOL" aliens are people who have either entered the U.S. illegally or who have overstayed their visa, but who the INS has decided not to remove from the U.S. The U.S. made a deal with Mexico in 2004, allowing illegal immigrants from Mexico to get Social Security benefits in the U.S. once their residency or citizenship status became legal. The benefits would cover work done during the time that the individuals were working illegally. So you just need to vouch for your relative and they begin recieving checks.

And one last question. How do they pay into Social Security when they have no SS number?

[Thorlifter]

Well, they started getting away with it because bleeding heart liberal judges and the suck a$$ ACLU made it possible to let all illegals get away with it.

Unfortunately, I firmly believe that there is going to have to be something catostrophic happen before we even begin to see a change!

[wilbur1]

Thor i think youre right. Lets bring back the wall except this time its called the "save the u.s. wall" this is all bullsh.t we shoudnt have to be having this conversation, We live here and our parents fought to be here

[Njaco]

.

[renrich]

Njaco, that is interesting stuff and points out how complicated this situation is. One issue which occurred to me last night was this: I believe that the law says that if a child is born in the US, it is automatically a naturalised American citizen. Probably if it's parents are citizens of another country then the child has dual citizenship. So, if we deport the parents of the child, because the parents are illegal immigrants, we can't legally deport the child or children since they are legal citizens of the US. I may be wrong in my reasoning but it sounds complicated.

[DBII]

The reason why employers continue to use lower wage illegal workers is because they know that the government is not going to do anything to them. Impose tough fines and the companies and if they continue the practice, shut them down. Cut off the free medical, welfare and education. With no benefits and no job, there will be no reason for them to come here. We will not have to round up everyone, most will return home.

Is there any other country that does not restrict the amount of money that is allowed to be shipped out? Either put a cap on the money a person is allowed to send overseas and put a high export fee on the money transfers.

I do not think that the use of illegal aliens to build houses in Texas has resulted in lower prices. Houses in the fly over states has always been lower the the coasts. It is back to supply and demand. There is not the population density that there is on the coast. Land is also readily availible to build. Demand is not high by a populationa nd both land and building are not scarce. These two facts alone have a bigger impact on the home prices than the use of illegal workers.

DBII

[Njaco]

I think you are correct Ren.

I really don't have a problem with anyone who comes here and tries to become a citizen or is allowed to work or go to college with the consent of the gov. At least try.

I don't see that, though. I see migrants who come for the high (for them) wages, healthcare, benefits, etc. without a care as to who is paying. I heard recently that some of these immigrants would work and send money home to banks in Mexico or wherever. The Feds started cracking down and Banks in Mexico saw a severe drop in deposits.

I see it as a drain. On the economy, on health issues, etc. The money they work for is spent mostly back in Mexico, they can go to a hospital and that is where they end up even for common colds. They don't have primary physicians here. Crimes are committed and its a run for the border.

It has to stop or we need to get a handle on this.

[renrich]

DB, with respect, I KNOW that immigrant labor holds down construction costs as I have built in several markets in Texas and also in Colorado. The factors you mention are also contributing factors. However, I am not claiming that we should ignore illegal immigration because we can get houses built more cheaply or eat cheaper fruit. We have to do something about the illegal immigration problem for more reasons than one but I believe an enforceable work permit program is part of the solution and would be beneficial to the US.

[DBII]

Renrich, I am sorry. I missunderstood your premise. I think that we may have similar solutions to the problem.

DBII

[joy17782]

Well i say no too reward illegals for breaking the law!!!!! no amenstiy what so ever!!! you should not break the law and they say ok well try it this way and your legal, my brother builds house he does abut 15 a year and he wont let his sub contracters on his sites unless they give him names and background checks on there employee,s and then they all have too go threw a saftey briefing and were sticker , you dont have a sticker your off his site, it lowers his insurance and bwc payments and also it promotes this in his sale,s of houses and even know were in a slump here he has orders for 12 already this year , something must be working. but i do think that something must happen before any of the pwers that be care

[DBII]

Joy17782, if more employers was like your brother, we would not have such a bad problem. Tell him thanks for doing it right.

DBII

[renrich]

DB, not a problem. When a builder does a fairly large volume of business it is easier to maintain a watch on the subs and their workers. When one is building large one of a kind homes, especially in Texas, where there are a high proportion of Latino workers, it is harder to control who is on the job. Especially this is true with certain trades such as framing, drywall, masonry, tile, stucco and painting. In certain areas of Texas such as the Austin-San Antonio area, requiring subs to do back ground checks is almost the same as not having subs at all. As an example of costs, when I left Dallas in 1992, I had a masonry contractor who had done every house for me for 28 years, more than 150 houses, he was Anglo and his men were too and I was paying $7.50/ft for stonework and I furnished the stone. When I moved back to Texas and built homes near Austin, in 2003, my masonry guy was a Latino but a US citizen, former paratrooper and I was getting stonework for $4.75 and he furnished the stone. The work was beautiful but I knew some of his guys were wetbacks. Every stonemason in the area had these type of workers. What do you do? Did you ever wonder why there are so many homes in the Austin-San Antonio area with stone exteriors? It is because Latinos excel in laying stone. Likewise tile. It is a pleasure watching them do their work and they are the most polite and accomodating people that I know of. I have worked with Latino contractors for 45 years, all, as far as I know, US citizens although I am sure some of their guys were illegals and they are some of my favorite people.

[DBII]

I heard back in the 90's that there were no one left in the Houston area that could lay brick properly so the contactors had to hire illegal. I cannot believe the skills sets that have been lost. I tired to research the problem of lost skills as an economic project but the teacher did not think that was an important issue to look into.

DBII