What should be the policy of the US as regards illegal immigrants.

[renrich]

We have been having a discussion on this subject in another thread so hopefully we can address this sticky problem more fully in a seperate thread. Someone said that they don't believe the cost benefits of using illegals are shared with the consumers. I believe that the cost of our fruits and vegetables would be higher if not for the stoop labor that comes across the border. I KNOW that the cost of housing in Texas would be higher if not for the latino workers in the construction industry there.

[Njaco]

I can see your point about costs being lower because of immigrant workers but are we sure that the cost savings is being passed on to the consumer? I have witnessed growers employing migrant labor, underthe table pay and I'm not so sure that the savings translates to cheaper price at the supermarket. I live in the part of the state that gave it its name, the Garden State, and I have worked alittle in the growwing industry around here - its been a few years.

But is there a way to judge if this is happening? Costs saving by migrants reaching our tables?

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Easy...

1. Send them all back to Mexico or wherever they came from.

2. Close the borders and tighten who gets to come in.

3. Send all the Rednecks down to the Border and annouce Open Season.









Okay I am kidding about the Open Season part.

[Konigstiger205]

I couldn't agree more Adler...

[FLYBOYJ]

If they commit a crime I'd put them on a chain gang - if it was a Federal Crime I'd put them on a chain gang along the Mexican Border to help construct "the fence."

[renrich]

Regarding costs passed along to the consumer. I have been in the homebuilding and construction business since 1962. Recently built some homes near Austin, Texas. Stone masonry there was $4.75/SF. Some of the masons were illegal. When I was living and working in Crested Butte, CO, I paid $24.00/sf. I furnished the stone in CO, the masonry contractor near Austin furnished the stone. Believe me those savings and costs were passed on to the consumer. In CO I was involved with a ski resort. We had to bring in workers from outside the country to do housekeeping in our hotels because the locals would not do the work for the wages we could afford to pay. These out of country workers were getting paid around $9.00/hr and they had green cards. The local people wanted $25.00/hr for the same work. We could not have opened the hotels with those kind of wages. I am not advocating that our country should ignore illegal immigrants because they help lower our cost of living but I do advocate a guest worker program because we do have a shortage of workers here in this country in certain vocations.

[Njaco]

Ren, I don't think we're really crossing hairs.

These out of country workers were getting paid around $9.00/hr and they had green cards.

More power to them! They're doing it aleast in the right way. I have no problem with that at all.

I also worked in construction a few years and I remember my boss sending me into the city to grab acouple people (?) off the corners for a days work. His price never saw a decrease at settlement because of it.

There is too much going on not to regulate who wants in nowadays. Its funny how in the "Should America be Isolationists" thread there is a world of gloom for other countries if the US pulls out military presence in other countries. We're such a bad country but everyone needs us and everyone wants to be here.

[renrich]

Most American citizens agree that the illegal immigrants in our country pose numerous problems. If there are 10M to 20M of them, what is a practicable, humane way to remove them from our country? I don't believe we can or should expand the INS so much that they can go around like the Gestapo asking everyone for an ID and arresting the illegals and deporting them. I don't believe it is doable that way nor do I believe that that is the image this country wants to present to the rest of the world.

[ToughOmbre]

Have got to stop the bleeding first

Secure the borders!

Then, get rid of (deport) every illegal alien that has commited a felony. And we're gonna have to change the law with regard to people being born on American soil with automatic US citizenship rights, not to mention "Sanctuary Cities".

Once we secure the borders we can deal with the illegals already here.

TO

[DBII]

The cost of housing in Texas is not based on the fact that illegals are constructing them. The fact is they are constructing homes everywhere in the country. This argument is false.

Let the free market rule. Deport every swinging richard that is not suppose to be here. If there is really work that we will not do then the employers will have to raise the wages so that people will do the jobs. Limit the government handouts and then people will get the jobs. So the farm workers get a raise and the price of produce goes up. No big deal. The government can stop paying farmers not plant and can stop purchasing items to prop up the prices. The market is self correcting if the government would leave everthing alone.

DBII

[Udet]

This problem could be compared with the one posed by the traffic of illegal narcotics coming from Mexico and other Latin American nations.

Same stuff: laws banning/prohibiting specific situations/substances.

Reality, however, dictates otherwise: very strong interests are involved.

If illegal aliens continue crossing the border -illegaly- it is for the very simple reason there are jobs available...employers willing to hire them.

If illegal narcotics continue coming across the border -illegaly- it is for the very simple reason there´s a market craving for the substances.

All in all, we talk about extremely powerful economic interests. If there were not any strong economic interests involved then the situation would simply go unnoticed.

When referring to drugs, governments are way too involved in the business; there is no "war against drugs" whatsoever, that´s only a speech. Its a lot of money, rivers, oceans of it. Politicians, government officials, bankers and druglords are massing enormous fortunes thanks to the traffic of narcotics. We are talking about the fortunes of the future world. The grandsons of these politicians and government officials and traffickers -who currently benefit from an activity punished by the law- will be the very well respected overhyped superbusinessmen of the XXII century when drugs are no longer treated as illegal by the law.

When referring to illegal aliens, we have the employers as the main beneficiaries -they can pay lower wages-; this illegal workforce of course helps maintaining different industries on their feet -for example: construction industry-.

Or what´s going on then? Are so many employers willing to endure severe fines and penalties, even risking the survival and continuation of their businesses if the authorities were enforcing the law?

Given the appearances it would seem like the authorities can not enforce the law in this regard because so many businesses in several industries could dissappear or collapse. Unemployment for those who are citizens and/or legal immigrants, less taxes collected.

Arent human beings excellent at complicating things?

[renrich]

TO, agree we must deport every illegal who has commited a felony. Much as I hate to admit it, we need a national ID card, perhaps a driver's license that cannot be counterfeited. Where I live now and in Texas there is essentially no unemployment so we need workers from somewhere. One reason housing is so much less expensive in Texas than in other parts of the US including here in CO is that a large percentage of the construction workers in Texas are latinos. I don't know what proportion of them are illegal.

[joy17782]

I agree with ADLER, renrich how can we support illegals , they broke the law, who cares if they work cheaper what the hell does that mean , some more money in someone elses pocket < sounds like maybe it was yours > read my thread today you have too read this maybe your see . THERE ILLEGALS because they broke the law , and too say nobody will do the work , well stop giveing welfare and ssi out like candy and see how many people will work or they can die who cares if you not productive the hell with you , But illegals are here illegally thats why there illegals , they already broke the law who cares if there felon,s or not they already broke the law and they want too call racism, and what ever , piss on that ship there butts home .YOU BROKE THE LAW END OF POINT !!!!!!

[renrich]

It is so simple to say get rid of the illegals. I am sure that if there was a way to wave a magic wand and humanely get all the illegals out of the country, most politicians including Pres Bush would gladly do it. Likewise if there was a simple way to keep illegals out they would do it. But it is not simple. Think of the Nazis and how they supposedly rounded up and killed 6 M Jews. Think how long it took them and the methods they used. Is the US ready for that?

[Udet]

Yes, that´s quite clear. They are there illegaly, the keyword. Break the law, face the punishments provided. So what? How come the situation does not seem to improve at all and you have a sound constant flow of illegal aliens coming through?

You are not suggesting the situation seems to worsen only, and only, because of the illegal aliens are you? What are your thoughts about employers and the authorities in the USA?

The true keyword here should be: MONEY.