Wiccans

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 04-24-2007, 04:51 PM

Yes you do have to say an oath. It might have changed but when I joined it was to god.

This is what it was when I joined the Army.

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 04-24-2007, 04:52 PM

Got yours out before mine Matt!

amrit · 04-24-2007, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

So help me God."

I take it the religious would accept that, even the pagans, but is there an alternative for atheists?

I know this isn't the same but I'm trying to remember what I said when I had to appear as a witness in court.

Matt308 · 04-24-2007, 05:03 PM

Maybe mkloby can answer.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 04-24-2007, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amrit

I take it the religious would accept that, even the pagans, but is there an alternative for atheists?

I know this isn't the same but I'm trying to remember what I said when I had to appear as a witness in court.

Not sure about now. When I joined the Army we had no choice. It was So Help Me God.

mkloby · 04-24-2007, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt308

Maybe mkloby can answer.

I don't know... I've never met anyone that objected to the oath... in all the commissionings, promotions, re-enlistments... I've never seen it happen.

Here's the Officer's Oath, note the differences.

"I [Officer's name] do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God."

amrit · 04-25-2007, 02:21 AM

I don't know how accurate this is but I found it interesting:

Quote:

Do I have to say "So Help Me God" during my enlistment oath?

No. It's a common question, although between the officer giving the oath, the reenlistment NCO, and the EO Rep, someone will recognize that it's illegal and unethical to force someone to swear to god if they don't want to. If necessary, point them at AR 601-280 "The Army Retention Program," Appendix D Paragraph 2k, which states specifically that the reenlisting soldier need not swear to god. Or to USC 512 Title 28 (Revision June 25, 1948 ch. 646, 62 Stat. 925) which clarifies that an oath of affirmation excludes the 'so help me god' portion.

From: Military Association of Atheists and Freethinkers

tpikdave · 05-01-2007, 05:07 PM

Matt:

Isn't that the same one as I took for the Navy ?

Speaking of strange places, my best friend worked on a communications contract to the Air Force. He reported to work every morning for 6.5 years at Hughes Terminal in Vegas and got on a red striped 737 and flew to A51 and flew home every night by 7pm. I was working with him at the time(out of Nellis and Indian Springs) and he had a clearance higher than God I think. It was a Q something. I had to have two FBI interviews myself (because of my checkered past) just to get my measly Secret clearance. 7 years, the best years I ever spent on any job. I got to see everything almost, every US, German,English French,Canadian,Israeli etc. etc. combat aircraft. The Red Flag operations were great, especially when I happened to be in the Red Flag ops room working on the AT consoles.

My friend Chuck saw a lot more than me and to this day he cannot divulge very much due to his debriefing. Boy was that ever great work.

Matt308 · 05-03-2007, 11:41 AM

Wouldn't we all like to know. Anything extraterrestrial?

tpikdave · 05-05-2007, 02:07 AM

Matt

He was pretty adamant about that. In the negatory, and he had full access to the base.

timshatz · 05-05-2007, 10:05 AM

One thing Euros don't get about America (that Americans understand implicitly) is the "So help me God" line does not mean any one God. It is your God and not a state sponsored God. As weird as it sounds, it is a secular God. Same thing applies when we say "God bless you" when somebody sneezes. Nothing personal, just hoping your brain doesn't follow out your nose.

For Euros (as for most of the world), there is a state sponsored God (usually Christian). When they hear an American saying "God bless you", they may think the person is a religous nut where as the Americans don't take it personally and are just trying to be polite.

amrit · 05-05-2007, 10:16 AM

State religions, or state-sponsered official religions are interesting - for the effect they have on social issues. In the wiki list, Ireland doesn't have a state religion, but the social and legal affects of Catholicism is very strong. On the other hand, Britain is offically CoE, but it's effects on the social and legal fabric are minimal nowadays.

The article is quote interesting (for a wiki one anyway!)

State religion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

mkloby · 05-05-2007, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timshatz

One thing Euros don't get about America (that Americans understand implicitly) is the "So help me God" line does not mean any one God. It is your God and not a state sponsored God. As weird as it sounds, it is a secular God. Same thing applies when we say "God bless you" when somebody sneezes. Nothing personal, just hoping your brain doesn't follow out your nose.

For Euros (as for most of the world), there is a state sponsored God (usually Christian). When they hear an American saying "God bless you", they may think the person is a religous nut where as the Americans don't take it personally and are just trying to be polite.

Hmmm... I don't believe in secularism... on the contrary I think it's a curse of the modern world. I do get your point though. But from the lefties point of view, it still says "God." Some people don't believe in God. Even though they are a tiny, miniscule percentage of the population, they want culture to yield and accomodate them. That is what is truly ridiculous. ACLU what???

Quote:

Originally Posted by amrit

State religions, or state-sponsered official religions are interesting - for the effect they have on social issues. In the wiki list, Ireland doesn't have a state religion, but the social and legal affects of Catholicism is very strong. On the other hand, Britain is offically CoE, but it's effects on the social and legal fabric are minimal nowadays.

The article is quote interesting (for a wiki one anyway!)

State religion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ireland's Constitution contains many facets that would make lefties shake in their boots over here in the US. Good on you, Ireland!

Matt308 · 05-07-2007, 03:36 PM

Interesting point. I just read an article by a German writer, Bodie was his name I think. And he postulated that the reason that Islam is becoming such a viable religion in Europe is BECAUSE of secularization. Thought provoking point. Secularization has created a vacuum that Islam then fills.

mkloby · 05-07-2007, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt308

Interesting point. I just read an article by a German writer, Bodie was his name I think. And he postulated that the reason that Islam is becoming such a viable religion in Europe is BECAUSE of secularization. Thought provoking point. Secularization has created a vacuum that Islam then fills.

I would tend to think secularism itself affords Islam to opporunity to take advantage of "tolerance," pushing the ideal of it as far as they can. I've never believed in secular BS... but then again, I'm a Catholic. My fellow Catholics in the northeast make me sick with their left-wing nonsense.