Are you a Republican or Democrat?

evangilder · 08-07-2006, 10:36 PM

Having the government teach your children, or blaming the government for lack of a childs education smacks even more of communism (socialism really, but I am using your verbage). Responsible parenting is what makes the difference. If you have kids in school doing well and kids not doing well, how the hell is that the government's fault that some do not do well? Simple, it isn't. Government programs to help pay for education and to create programs for better education are fine, but if my kid is doing poorly in school, I will do everything I can to get him passing, not wait for the gu'ment to step in.

Larry Bejayna · 08-08-2006, 12:59 AM

Because of the government sponsored educational programs that I outlined above.

You don't understand the $ factor. If the teachers union wants $, they have to do what the state and or government officials tell them to do. That's how it works in the real world.

The latest law likely to pass in California is mandatory positive gay historical figure teachings. guess what, no opt out for the parents, or dissenting teachers. Are you getting the picture???!

The state government overriding parents objections, in other words, "they" are calling the shots, not the parents and or teachers in this instance.

I wouldn't wait for the governmnet to step in either, I would homeschool.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 08-08-2006, 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evangilder

Having the government teach your children, or blaming the government for lack of a childs education smacks even more of communism (socialism really, but I am using your verbage). Responsible parenting is what makes the difference. If you have kids in school doing well and kids not doing well, how the hell is that the government's fault that some do not do well? Simple, it isn't. Government programs to help pay for education and to create programs for better education are fine, but if my kid is doing poorly in school, I will do everything I can to get him passing, not wait for the gu'ment to step in.

Exactly Even. Blaming the government for you child failing at education is just a copout for laziness and bad parenting.

Larry Bejayna · 08-08-2006, 02:51 AM

OK, so your kid gets pumped full of ritalin, & goes through outcome based education, doesn't know England is an island as a result, & there's no worries eh?

Koo koo that is.Have a read through here. Your gonna tell me what & how they teach is not important? ridiculous.

TEACHING GEOGRAPHY: A VALUABLE ENTERPRISE

Today's students are apparently not being taught where things are. The serious teaching of geography in the schools seems to have disappeared. This is distressing.

For example, a few years ago at the School of Foreign Service of Georgetown University - America's premier institution for the teaching of international affairs, alma mater of President Bill Clinton - almost a third of the brightest and most competitive freshmen in the school's history failed a basic geography test, even after taking a one-credit course in the subject. Earlier, of the 225 students who tried to test out of the course, only 23 passed, and of those, 16 were not U.S. citizens.

The questions on this exam were not difficult, but basic: What is the capital of China? Where is the Persian Gulf? Who are the two main ethnic groups of Cyprus? Through what countries does the Danube River flow?

Other, similar tests and surveys show similarly disturbing results. Many high school students tested a couple of years ago could not find the United States on a world map, a good fraction pointed to Brazil as the answer.

No worries eh? The decisions of the higher ups not relevant? Sorry, that's absurd.

evangilder · 08-08-2006, 08:06 AM

Again, the job as a parent is to monitor what they are being taught and to help them. There are PTAs and believe me, a visit to the school board does get results. Ritalin? NEVER.

If you think there is no opt-out for some teachings, there is. There are ways around those things and waivers can be obtained.

I know quite a bit about the educational system in California and how it works. My child is high functioning autistic and because of that, I have learned that there is a lot you can do within the schools if you know who to talk to and what to say. YOU as a parent have to stay active in your child's education. YOU have to be their number one teacher. If necessary, YOU have to be the one to supplement and tutor. If you send them to school and think that is it, then YOU have failed as a parent.

plan_D · 08-08-2006, 09:14 AM

"doesn't know England is an island as a result"

While I understand what you're saying Larry, and I'm thinking both parties here are getting mixed up between the government side of education and the parenting side (they're two different sections to the childs education, what the teachers teach, and how the parents force 'em to learn). You have really shown a lack of teaching there...

England isn't an island.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 08-08-2006, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry Bejayna

OK, so your kid gets pumped full of ritalin, & goes through outcome based education, doesn't know England is an island as a result, & there's no worries eh?

First of all I would never put my children on ritalin. If you allow your children to be put on ritalin that is your own fault. The government does not force you to do so. Be a parent and challenge you children and you will find success.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry Bejayna

Koo koo that is.

That better not have been directed toward me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry Bejayna

Have a read through here. Your gonna tell me what & how they teach is not important? ridiculous.

No I am telling you that the teachers are not teaching the right thing. The government is not the one teaching.

This is again the problem of the parents not getting involved in what there kids are learning.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry Bejayna

Today's students are apparently not being taught where things are. The serious teaching of geography in the schools seems to have disappeared. This is distressing.

Thats because the people in the US seem to think they are the only country in the world. Again that is fault of upbringing and not the government.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry Bejayna

Other, similar tests and surveys show similarly disturbing results. Many high school students tested a couple of years ago could not find the United States on a world map, a good fraction pointed to Brazil as the answer.

Do I have to repeat myself again?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry Bejayna

No worries eh? The decisions of the higher ups not relevant? Sorry, that's absurd.

Yeap I have no worries because I am going to be involved with my childrens education. I will not have to blame the government for my own faults.

davparlr · 08-08-2006, 11:29 AM

I cannot add anything to what Evangilder and DerAlder has said except the the rules for raising great kids is simple, participate in their moral, educational and recreational growth and give them as much love as they can stand. And, Larry Bejayna, you have a right to protest the teaching from the government, but you can override that by participation.

Chief · 08-08-2006, 01:16 PM

Adler You hit the nail on the head.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

First of all I would never put my children on ritalin. If you allow your children to be put on ritalin that is your own fault. The government does not force you to do so. Be a parent and challenge you children and you will find success.

Present, I was put on ritalin at grade 5. My parents saw a problem as I lost frined, my speach was crap, and I was the biggest kid in the school width wise. I'm still taking medicine, but this time my parents saw a ginacolagist (professional). I'm still some what large, but tis time it's my fault.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

That better not have been directed toward me.

Boy, if it was and you let that fly...I'll be upset.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

No I am telling you that the teachers are not teaching the right thing. The government is not the one teaching.

This is again the problem of the parents not getting involved in what there kids are learning.

Once again, I agree. The reason kids today are sharp as a squeezy toy is that the teachers aren't teaching what needs to be taught. However, even so if a school is full of teachers like this than, than the school need to close so the kids can go somewhere else so they can learn in another school that does it right. In this case though a parent should know if his/her child is not leaning anything seeing as he's acting like a 6th grader as apposed to 9th grade.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

Thats because the people in the US seem to think they are the only country in the world. Again that is fault of upbringing and not the government.

yes it is a fault in upbringing. I good parent would know that his/her child couldn't find the United States on the world map. However, blame does have to go on the school as well. If the kids don't know their basic geography they shouldn't be passed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

Yeap I have no worries because I am going to be involved with my childrens education. I will not have to blame the government for my own faults.

Same here. My kid will know the bible, front to back, by the time he/she exits the womb.

pbfoot · 08-08-2006, 02:01 PM

A pet peeve of mine are pedestrians with kids crossing at a red light because there is no traffic . If I recall one of the first rules you are taught is to wait for the light to turn green and the parents if they are trying to set an example should wait rather then cross even if there is no traffic . The other way will lead to confusion in a kids mind as to what rules you obey and which ones you don't

Larry Bejayna · 08-08-2006, 02:01 PM

The Government often "does" force kids on ritalin. You're not up to speed with programs like teenscreen. In short, you're wrong.

Parent participation is very important, but while the parent is at work, he or she does need to worry about the quality of education the kid gets at school. & if the government forces stupid programs like teenscreen & goals 2000 into the school systems, it presents rather a large problem for the parent to overcome. Thinking that good parenting is all one needs & there is nothing to worry about regarding the school system & the programs that they implement is very naiive.

Stop TeenScreen's Unscientific and Experimental "Mental Health Screening" of American School Children Petition

TeenScreen has screened children across the nation without written parental consent in violation of federal law and state laws and has screened children across the nation without fully informed consent and did not warn parents

Scoop: TeenScreen - Normal Kids Labeled Mentally Ill

based on recommendations by President Bush's New Freedom Commission to screen all school children for mental illness, TeenScreen is now being administered in the nation's public school system and children are being regularly diagnosed with one, or more, disorders

Bush set it up the overall scheme so that tax payers will foot the bill for the implementation of the TeenScreen program. On October 21, 2004, he signed a bill into law that authorized $82 million to be spent over 3 years for programs like TeenScreen.

Did we get that? President Bush, y'know, "the Government".

Chief · 08-08-2006, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry Bejayna

The Government often "does" force kids on ritalin. You're not up to speed with programs like teenscreen. In short, you're wrong.

No, The schools are just making suggestions. It's the parents that have to give the ok whether or not they think needs to put chemical that effect the brain or any part of the child's body. It's not the schools fault if the parents are to guallable to realize that they no their kid better than the school does.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry Bejayna

Parent participation is very important, but while the parent is at work, he or she does need to worry about the quality of education the kid gets at school. & if the government forces stupid programs like teenscreen & goals 2000 into the school systems, it presents rather a large problem for the parent to overcome. Thinking that good parenting is all one needs & there is nothing to worry about regarding the school system & the programs that they implement is very naiive.

Stop TeenScreen's Unscientific and Experimental "Mental Health Screening" of American School Children Petition

TeenScreen has screened children across the nation without written parental consent in violation of federal law and state laws and has screened children across the nation without fully informed consent and did not warn parents

Scoop: TeenScreen - Normal Kids Labeled Mentally Ill

based on recommendations by President Bush's New Freedom Commission to screen all school children for mental illness, TeenScreen is now being administered in the nation's public school system and children are being regularly diagnosed with one, or more, disorders.

Once again you don't get it before you start Bush bashin' understand. The whole point of the program is to get the child up to speed on what he/she has and what to do to go past the problem and succeed in life the problem is that people don't realize that this program is a joint effort between the teacher, the doctor, the child and obviously the parent. Identifying the problem is only half the job. After that it's the parents job to get the child to a doctor to conferm this and get him/her the proper treatment if he/she needs it. still the school is only partially to blame. Most of the blame falls on the parents. The government shouldn't have to step in that's the who problem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry Bejayna

Bush set it up the overall scheme so that tax payers will foot the bill for the implementation of the TeenScreen program. On October 21, 2004, he signed a bill into law that authorized $82 million to be spent over 3 years for programs like TeenScreen.

Sad thing is he shouldn't have to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry Bejayna

Did we get that? President Bush, y'know, "the Government".

Sadly no most of us do not.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 08-09-2006, 11:58 AM

No Larry I did not get that. I am not one of those people that blames Bush for all of my problems because I can not admit to them myself and fix them myself.

Bush is not forcing you to put your child on ritalin. You have to say "Yeah do it" therefore it is the parents fault.

Teachers can still teach and give there students a good education. If teachers do not, then that is not the governments fault.

Oh and Larry I have not recieved a response yet from you. Were you trying to make a feeble attempt at insulting me up there by calling me koo koo?

Larry Bejayna · 08-09-2006, 01:29 PM

Blame Bush for all my problems? koo koo that is. Never said it. Liberals are in on it too if it makes you fell better... & please don't put words in my mouth, I didn't blame the government for everything, I said they were involved in destroying education, & what I have posted so far proves me right.

Big Pharma has managed to cozy up with a few Democrats as well. For instance, Senator Joe Lieberman has been known to pal around with lobbyists representing drug companies that provides large contributions to his campaign.

"The whole point of the program is to get the child up to speed on what he/she has and what to do to go past the problem and succeed in life the problem is that people don't realize that this program is a joint effort between the teacher, the doctor, the child and obviously the parent."

Actually no, the whole point is to make money off drugs that have no science to back them up. Bush senior is on board of directors of Ely Lily, makers of Prozac & Ritalin. Ritalin is now a street drug. These drugs exactly nothing towards solving a childs problems, quite the opposite, enough of these & the brain atrophies.

& the child often does not go to the doctor, rather a psychiatrist who has no brain science training like a brain surgeon does, administers the dope on the spot.

"Six days after she began taking Zoloft, Julie hanged herself in the family's garage. Since their daughter's suicide, Tom and Kathy have become activists and have work diligently in attempt to educate others parents about the dangers of SSRIs.

Sue Weibert, is an ardent activist against TeenScreen, and has been investigating the program for well over a year. She recently found that when a school enters into a contract to administer the TeenScreen survey, it must agree to screen a minimum of 200 children per season.

According to Ms Weibert, a recent study showed 33% of the kids screened test positive, and quoting a figure provided by Dr Shafer seven years ago in 1999, the study said the cost was about $37 per child per screening.

So all total, 200 times a rounded off fee of $35 would amount to $7,000 in tax dollars just for the screening. After that, the 33% who screen positive are sent for a "further assessment" at an average cost of $250 to parents."

P.S. follow the money trail.

Chief · 08-09-2006, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry Bejayna

Actually no, the whole point is to make money off drugs that have no science to back them up. Bush senior is on board of directors of Ely Lily, makers of Prozac & Ritalin. Ritalin is now a street drug. These drugs exactly nothing towards solving a childs problems, quite the opposite, enough of these & the brain atrophies.

Once again get off your fat liberal bush bashin' but and listen. Just because you don't like him does not give you the right to slander his name. All you say is Bush does this and Bush does that cause he's an evil rich republican who doesn't understand the lower parts of life. He got were he is today because he worked for a living. Not all Republican's are nice or lagit. But the same is with democrates. It's not about bush vs Kerry or piss vs crap. Its about moral's vs. intelligence. The problem is people are to proud of there intelligence to realise that it's morals that get you through life not the other way around. It's not the teacher running your child. The teacher is just making a suggestion. It's the parent who has to agree to go along with it. Ultimately, it's the parent resposiblity erego it's the parent's fault for what happens to his/her/ther fault. As for the Bush senior skimming off the top of the Amercan's hard earned money. Why don't you come up with some proof before spouting off about the Bush agenda because of your being influenced by this darn political rivalry.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry Bejayna

& the child often does not go to the doctor, rather a psychiatrist who has no brain science training like a brain surgeon does, administers the dope on the spot.

Once again its the parents choice whether the doctor administers the meds or not. It's against the law if the Doctor does without the parents consent. Besides, I doubt that whatever college/university that doctor went to would've passed that doctor if he just administered drugs at whim just because it looks like the child is mentally ill because statistics in the past shows that a good percent of people (kids/adults) who are diagnosed and treated like this tend to die. Than the doctor's only form of monetary gain is gone and that's bad for business. Also some doctors take pride in what they do. Not everyone in the world is as corrupt and the U.N.