Are you a Republican or Democrat?

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 08-11-2006, 04:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry Bejayna

& some parents can't afford that. In fact one school had a situation where a gay teacher was teaching the class about his life, the parents got upset, a court case ensued where the judge ruled in favor of the gay man & ordered the kids back to class. Proving it is more than just the parents that are involved. Period.

No offense but I dont see anything wrong with that. Gay Americans are just that, Gay Americans. They have rights just like you and me, and learning about there rights in an American system is not a terrible thing. I just think that what is tought about gay rights should be controled.

I have a friend who is gay. He is an old childhood friend. No one knew he was gay until he turned 18 because he was afraid of what people would do or say to him.

He is still a friend today even after he outed himself, why because he is still a good friend. I believe his rights as a gay person should be upheld.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 08-11-2006, 04:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry Bejayna

You are right in principle Adler, it is the resonsibility of the parent to be sure the child gets a good education, but that is not what is taking place. More & more state & fed governments think they are responsible for it.

Who cares? gays are people too, well the point is, the governmnet has no right, ( state or fed ), to force feed your child what they believe is in the childs best interests regarding morals etc. Why? because they didn't create the child, or change it's diapers at midnite & so on . No different regarding prayer in schools. they have no right to feed that to your kid.

Your rights as a parent are dwindling. Your point about "so what they screen your kid, but you can say no to drugs", is very weak. The child is damaged by the labeling, unsually bogus labelling. & your rights to say no to that are being circumvented.

We are going to have to agree to disagree because well....I will just leave it at that. Im not going to call any thing of yours "weak" or whatever...

evangilder · 08-12-2006, 12:24 AM

A couple of other things here. School systems in the public schools do not have school psychiatrists, the have school psychologists. There is a HUGE difference here. They can recommend that you put your kid on drugs, but they cannot, by law, force you to do anything. They are not MDs, as a psychiatrist is and cannot therefore do a medical diagnosis to prescribe drugs. Would you be labelled a "trouble parent"? Maybe, but trouble parents often get what they need to get done, done.

One thing you completely have failed to grasp is that school system higher ups are bureaucrats. Once you start rattling their cages, going to the school boards, or the best threat, the press, they will take care of and do the right thing. I have not had to get that far with my child, but know enough about the system to know what works, and what doesn't. Lazy parenting is no excuse. The no opt-out is crap. ANY thing in the system has waiverability. There is nothing written in stone in the public school system. This I am sure of.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 08-12-2006, 08:47 AM

Absolutely right Even.

Larry Bejayna · 08-12-2006, 11:02 PM

Except written law. One parent was accosted by police for insisting on the opt out paperwork, the school called the police & he was arrested for trespassing.

& they are not teaching gay rights in schools, rather it is positive gay historical contributions. Which is a slick pr campaign & "very" biased. One cannot teach about Jeffrey Dahlmer & Gacy for example, but negative hetero historical accomplishements are fair game, Hitler, Stalin, Slavery & so on.

evangilder · 08-12-2006, 11:35 PM

How can you even make a comparison of Dahmer and Gacy to Hitler and Stalin? That's like comparing a unicycle to a Ferrari. I think you are making way too much of this, to be honest.

Larry Bejayna · 08-13-2006, 01:48 AM

not comparing the 2 per se, rather pointing out the double standard.

One could use personalities like Manson or some other murderer to illustrate the same point.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 08-13-2006, 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry Bejayna

Except written law. One parent was accosted by police for insisting on the opt out paperwork, the school called the police & he was arrested for trespassing.

You left the part out about how the parent became violent and threatened to be hostile. I would have had him arrested as well if he were to do that to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry Bejayna

& they are not teaching gay rights in schools, rather it is positive gay historical contributions. Which is a slick pr campaign & "very" biased.

So if a gay person made a contribution to the United States it is is not worth as much as if a straight person did? I am not gay, but you are a little over the top here when it comes to this topic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry Bejayna

One cannot teach about Jeffrey Dahlmer & Gacy for example, but negative hetero historical accomplishements are fair game, Hitler, Stalin, Slavery & so on.

Alright let me get this straight because if I understood you right then the way you are thinking is what makes the US education system so terrible.

You are saying that it is okay to learn about Dahlmer & Gacy but learning about historical things that changed the way the world is today such as the acts of Hitler and Stalin should not be tought? Or that slavery should not be tought?

If I did not understand you right then please tell me, but if I did that is absurd or as you put it whenever you disagree with someone Koo Koo!

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 08-13-2006, 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry Bejayna

not comparing the 2 per se, rather pointing out the double standard.

One could use personalities like Manson or some other murderer to illustrate the same point.

That Manson could be used to illustrate the same point as Hitler or Stalin?

evangilder · 08-13-2006, 09:40 AM

Manson, Gacy and Dahmer were no doubt bad guys that committed murders, but they did not cause a world to go to war or an arms race. Common criminals with above average records do not compare with dictators and despots. If a person who is gay made a contribution to science, math or world events, should they not be mentioned?

Being gay or not gay does not change anything as far as a persons accomplishments in life. If my son is taught that a person who made a significant contribution was also gay, it is quite easy as a parent to teach them that applying labels to people like gay/straight, jew/gentile, black/white has nothing to do with the character of the individual.

There are more things that my son learns in school from other children that I disagree with than classroom curriculum. A big part of your job as a parent is to guide and teach them. If you rely solely on the public schools to teach them, then you, as a parent, have failed.

Pisis · 08-13-2006, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marconi

You're dreaming, evan, that would eliminate 101% of them.

P.S. I don't vote.At least that gives me the feeling that I didn't select an ******* to rule my country.

How was it prior to 2005 with elections?

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 08-13-2006, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evangilder

Manson, Gacy and Dahmer were no doubt bad guys that committed murders, but they did not cause a world to go to war or an arms race. Common criminals with above average records do not compare with dictators and despots. If a person who is gay made a contribution to science, math or world events, should they not be mentioned?

Being gay or not gay does not change anything as far as a persons accomplishments in life. If my son is taught that a person who made a significant contribution was also gay, it is quite easy as a parent to teach them that applying labels to people like gay/straight, jew/gentile, black/white has nothing to do with the character of the individual.

There are more things that my son learns in school from other children that I disagree with than classroom curriculum. A big part of your job as a parent is to guide and teach them. If you rely solely on the public schools to teach them, then you, as a parent, have failed.

Could not have said it better Even. I still dont know where he is going with this at all.

Larry Bejayna · 08-13-2006, 10:12 PM

"Being gay or not gay does not change anything as far as a persons accomplishments in life."

Exactly the point, what does who someone slept with have to do with their accomplishements??

"If you rely solely on the public schools to teach them, then you, as a parent, have failed."

Couldn't agree more.

& Alexander the great has been labelled gay lately, even Hitler gets a mention in the Pink triangle, they caused major wars.

As to where I was going with this, the point was, they are presenting a whitewash on the subject. History & people in general are not spotless, gay or straight. If you're gonna teach history, how bout the truth? Has speaking truth become so un PC that it is now verboten? They should teach both the good & the bad, be fair & balanced in other words. I doubt they will teach little factoids such as this...

According to the American Journal of Diseases of Children and The Advocate, close to 60% of adolescent AIDS sufferers were infected by adult bisexual and homosexual men. Thousands of these American boys are now dead. The same is probably true for other western countries like Canada, where many young runaway boys end up prostituting themselves for men.

Larry Bejayna · 08-14-2006, 12:33 AM

Wasn't Caesar gay as well? & didn't the Romans participate in pederasty? ( sex with boys aged 12 & up ). I suppose that little tidbit of gay history will be sort of passed over & excluded from the teachings eh?

evangilder · 08-14-2006, 12:47 AM

What does it matter? You seem to be pretty focused on this issue. Why?

I think it is time to get back on topic with this thread.