Zimbabwe's brutality is our business

[FLYBOYJ]

Thanks Henk and Eddie, I know we'll hear more on this.

Henk - what you stated I heard from a number of Black and White former South Africans.

I think the real problem here is in the west and especially in the US many have tried to tie the "black struggle" in SA to what blacks went through in the US during the late 50s and early 60s. Two entirely different cultures and political situations.

[Henk]

Yes, I saw some of the stuff that happened in the US and that was not the same as here. Yes, the Government did kill ANC members to keep them from planting bombs and killing innocent people, but that I can understand.

We did have the AWB that hated blacks and did a lot of sh!t, they did not have a cause actually they just hated blacks.

[Danielmellbin]

So none of you feel that black people were treated as 3rd rate citizens and/or subhuman during the apartheid?

[FLYBOYJ]

I have my opinions based on what I seen while I was there but I'll let Eddie and Henk answer that first.

[Henk]

Originally Posted by Danielmellbin

So none of you feel that black people were treated as 3rd rate citizens and/or subhuman during the apartheid?

The answer is yes and no. Yes, because they did not have rights, but did they have the advancement of civilization to rely on to let them have the rights and help their own people? Look what happened at the homelands! It was tried and tested and did not work. Look at Mugabe, he got his people so called freedom and look where they are now.

No, because they did have a lot of other things that came their way like I have said earlier. They paid less for almost everything like education, health and taxes. So yes they did not have rights, but they got a lot of other stuff and look what has happened since the ANC took over from the Apartheid government. They sold all the extra food reserves and oil reserves to get money. Health, education and public services has gone down they drain. They spend tons of money on party's and waste money on bullsh!t.

During Apartheid you could not put petrol/gas after 6 at night until 6 in the morning to keep people from using to much petrol/gas. Farmers was safe and got money from the state to keep the people fed. There was always electricity and you could count on the police and justice system to keep law and order.

Even people from further up in Africa that stay here in SA said that the ANC suck and that they are worth nothing and that the Black people in SA are lazy and barbaric people. One black saying it about another black person.

Eddie what do you think?

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by Henk

The answer is yes and no.

Agree - I hope Eddie chimes in here....

[eddie_brunette]

Hi guys, was away for couple o days!

I have to agree too, but I tend to move towards "that black people were treated as 3rd rate citizens and/or subhuman during the apartheid" I clearly remember how some white people treated the black people and it is a real shame. I could never understand for instance, why you have to scream/insult/hit someone that did not pickup YOUR dog's sh!t. It is as if the whites got pleasure out of degrading other people. (Blacks/Indians/Colourds)

BUT like Henk said, "No, because they did have a lot of other things that came their way like I have said earlier. They paid less for almost everything like education, health and taxes. So yes they did not have rights, but they got a lot of other stuff and look what has happened since the ANC took over from the Apartheid government. They sold all the extra food reserves and oil reserves to get money. Health, education and public services has gone down they drain. They spend tons of money on party's and waste money on bullsh!t."

I am a civil servant (surprised?) I'm a Graphic Designer for our Province's Education Department and I see daily the new emerging culture called "self-enrichment". To me this is the worst that ever came out of Southern Africa (Zim included). In the past people where divided by race, people are now divided by the privileged few. Government WASTE money!!! Most South African citizens don't have clue!!!! The richer just become richer, the poor, poorer.

*went outside to scream*
edd

[eddie_brunette]

One of the headlines in the Newspapers today, which explains our government’s incompetence:

More blacks consider emigration
24/07/2008 21:21 - (SA)

Johannesburg - The number of black and coloured South Africans seriously considering emigration has shot up by 20% and 30% respectively since 2000, researchers said on Thursday.

"We are now seeing a tipping point for an exodus, but this time across the board in terms of race," Future Fact researcher Debbie Milne told a conference in Johannesburg.

"It is motivated more by the sense of cynicism than real, violent, political turmoil," she added.

About 39% of South Africans said they were seriously considering leaving the country in 2007, as opposed to 18% in 2000, in a survey conducted in the second half of last year among 2 500 adults.

The increase was up across all races. Only 22% of white people, 18% of black people, 12% of coloured people and 26% of Indians said they were considering emigration in 2000.

People feel helpless and hopeless

But in 2007, sentiments had changed with 41% of whites, 38% of blacks, 42% of coloureds and 30% of Indians thinking of leaving the country.

"It does show the sense of dissatisfaction," said Milne.

"South Africa as a society has a number of unhappy people who feel helpless and hopeless about their future. Many social ills contribute to an exodus mentality among our citizens."

The survey also showed that more than two thirds of South Africans believed in 2006 that most problems in the country were caused by illegal immigrants.

Some 67% of South Africans believed this in 2006, as opposed to 47% in 2002.

Down and out

Depression levels were high among all South Africans, but highest among people in the lowest income groups. Two-thirds of people in the lowest income group said they often felt depressed, while about 45% of middle class South Africans and 33% of upper class people said the same.

High crime rates were one of the main reasons for the pessimism.

The research found that 63% of people believed they had a right to take the law into their hands if the police failed to deal with a crime.

Another 60% said they would rather call a neighbour or a private security company instead of the police during a house robbery.

Proudly South African

However, she said South Africans were still "clearly seeking out commonality".

She said 53% of respondents said they considered themselves first as South Africans, before identifying themselves by race or language.

Also, 78% of white South Africans believed one should learn a black language.

edd

[Henk]

That was well done Eddie with the newspaper article. It just show that it is not just the white people in SA that think it is f*cked up with the stuff that is going on around us.

[FLYBOYJ]

Thanks guys, and as I stated earlier 3 sides to the story, unfortunately in our part of the world (and in Europe) we only hear one.

[Henk]

Pleasure mate.

Yes, it is a shame that the media and governments outside SA not just tell the truth and rather show the sugar coated story of what is going on.

[FLYBOYJ]

I'd like to call it "white man's guilt." To me it seems the media will always portray SA whites as brutal oppressors who just exploited and victimized blacks. The blacks in the US would pick up on that and try to link "the struggle" in the same light with political ambitions they may have here. When I was in Botswana I not only met many whites who fled SA but also met black and mixed race folks who also left SA for the reasons you stated. I've tried to tell folks about this here and they don't believe me.

[Henk]

In 1961 Prime Minister Hendrik Verwoerd said just before SA became a Republic that it will not be his kids or their kids, but his grandchildren that will pay for what they did. He was killed in 1964 in the Parliament building by a mad man.

I have nothing to feel guilty about because I did not have anything to do with what happened before. Rather than feel guilty about what the whites did the new generation must do something to move on, but when does that happen?

It is sad that there are so many people that do not have a clue of what is going on in the rest of the world.

[eddie_brunette]

Got bored........

4th reich.jpg

[eddie_brunette]

Edit: Sorry double post