Best Aerobatic Team?

[FLYBOYJ]

Whats funny is the guys who probably decided to have a team in Turkey were trained in Canada and your flying aircraft built in Canada , we gave ours to Botswana soon after you got our 104's

Actually they are flying ex-Dutch F-5s.

[pbfoot]

Actually they are flying ex-Dutch F-5s.

Yep but they were made by Canadair almost clones of ours I'm not sure if they air to air refuellers though

[alexyflemming]

SUPERSONIC TEAMS
TURKISH STARS (NF5):
AirPower09 Day 1 F 53 Tiger Turkish Stars Part.2 YouTube - AirPower09 Day 1 F 53 Tiger Turkish Stars Part.2

(
AirPower09 Day 1 F 53 Tiger Turkish Stars Part.1 : YouTube - AirPower09 Day 1 F 53 Tiger Turkish Stars Part.1
AirPower09 Day 1 F 53 Tiger Turkish Stars Part.2 : YouTube - AirPower09 Day 1 F 53 Tiger Turkish Stars Part.2
AirPower09 Day 1 F 53 Tiger Turkish Stars Part.3 : YouTube - AirPower09 Day 1 F 53 Tiger Turkish Stars Part.3
AirPower09 Day 1 F 53 Tiger Turkish Stars Part.4 : YouTube - AirPower09 Day 1 F 53 Tiger Turkish Stars Part.4
AirPower09 Day 1 F 53 Tiger Turkish Stars Part.5 : YouTube - AirPower09 Day 1 F 53 Tiger Turkish Stars Part.5
)

BLUE ANGLES (with the old jets):
YouTube - Van Halen-Dreams (Blue Angels)
BLUE ANGLES (with F-18A):
??
NON-SUPERSONIC TEAMS
??

[FLYBOYJ]

Yep but they were made by Canadair almost clones of ours I'm not sure if they air to air refuellers though

Yep!

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

1.

F-5 has already been proved to be the BEST SUPERSONIC JET FOR AEROBATIC SHOWS. Many analysis were done before selecting that jet.

Please show these analysis. If you are going to post them as facts, then you need to provide the sources and facts.

There are approximately 130 reasons why NF5 jets are the best jets for airshows.

Please list those 130 reasons, as well as sources and facts.

4.
Turkish Stars performs “mirror image” better than the others even under difficult conditions (high speed & Low altitude)!

Please prove it. What are you qualifications in doing so, and where are your sources and facts that prove it.

ALSO: Members of Turkish Stars are elected from F-16 squadrons of Turkish Air Force (F-16 that ThunderBirds uses!). Members of Turkish Stars performed “<1 meter mirror image” with F-16s as well when they are in F-16 squadrons. So, the ABSENCE of “<1 meter mirror image” of ThunderBirds comes from NOT the potential of the jet they use, but the capability they have (more truly, they do NOT have)!

Your point being? The Thunderbirds are an actual combat squadron. If they are needed in combat they can be called upon. They train for combat situations. So I don't see what your point is. The Thunderbirds fly the same aircraft that they would fly in combat...

ThunderBirds uses F-16s, if their data is explained, then the capability of them is also revealed since there are F-16 squadrons in many countries. US Army does NOT want that.

Why would the US Army care about the F-16? The US Army does NOT use the F-16. The US Air Force uses the F-16. Two different entities...

[Messy1]

Alexy, are you looking for a mirror image such as this one that they Thunderbirds cannot do?

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I already seperated the Aerobatic Teams in two main groups:
HORSES: Supersonic ones.
DONKEYS: Not supersonic ones.

Sorry, but you have no clue what you are talking about. The type of maneuvers that are done at airshows (the really crazy twisty turny stuff - too put it into terms that you might understand) are not conducted at high supersonic speeds...

By any team!

I Sent VIDEOS (TO WATCH), Pictures (TO LOOK).
I ALSO EXPECT VIDEOS AND PICTURES IN RESPONSE NATURALLY.

NO NEED TO READ SOMETHING. SEND VIDEO. ALL I WANT IS THAT.

Yet you don't understand the videos you are posting, or anything that you are posting.

[Messy1]

If I am not mistaken, the F5 was the basis for the T38 trainer in the US, which pilots trained in BEFORE they could step foot into a F-16. Explain to me how the F5 is a superior plane to the F16
F-16
General characteristics

* Crew: 1
* Length: 49 ft 5 in (14.8 m)
* Wingspan: 32 ft 8 in (9.8 m)
* Height: 16 ft (4.8 m)
* Wing area: 300 ft² (27.87 m²)
* Airfoil: NACA 64A204 root and tip
* Empty weight: 18,900 lb (8,670 kg)
* Loaded weight: 26,500 lb (12,000 kg)
* Max takeoff weight: 42,300 lb (19,200 kg)
* Powerplant: 1× F110-GE-100 afterburning turbofan
o Dry thrust: 17,155 lbf (76.3 kN)
o Thrust with afterburner: 28,600 lbf (128.9 kN)

Performance

* Maximum speed:
o At sea level: Mach 1.2 (915 mph, 1,470 km/h)
o At altitude: Mach 2+ (1,500 mph, 2,414 km/h)
* Combat radius: 340 mi (295 nm, 550 km) on a hi-lo-hi mission with six 1,000 lb (450 kg) bombs
* Ferry range: 2,280 NM (2,620 mi, 4,220 km) with drop tanks
* Service ceiling: 60,000+ ft (18,000+ m)
* Rate of climb: 50,000 ft/min (254 m/s)
* Wing loading: approx 40 lb/ft²[136] (430 kg/m²)
* Thrust/weight: 1.095
F5
General characteristics

* Crew: 1
* Length: 47 ft 4¾ in (14.45 m)
* Wingspan: 26 ft 8 in (8.13 m)
* Height: 13 ft 4½ in (4.08 m)
* Wing area: 186 ft² (17.28 m²)
* Airfoil: NACA 65A004.8 root, NACA 64A004.8 tip
* Empty weight: 9,558 lb (4,349 kg)
* Max takeoff weight: 24,664 lb (11,187 kg)
* Powerplant: 2× General Electric J85-GE-21B turbojet
o Dry thrust: 3,500 lbf (15.5 kN) each
o Thrust with afterburner: 5,000 lbf (22.2 kN) each
* *Zero-lift drag coefficient: 0.0200
* Drag area: 3.4 ft² (0.32 m²)
* Aspect ratio: 3.86
* Internal fuel: 677 US gal (2,563 L)
* External fuel: 275 US gal (1,040 L) per tank in up to 3 tanks

Performance

* Maximum speed: 917 kn (1,060 mph, 1,700 km/h, mach 1.6)
* Range: 760 nmi (870 mi, 1,405 km)
* Ferry range: 2,010 nmi (2,310 mi, 3,700 km[24])
* Service ceiling: 51,800 ft (15,800 m)
* Rate of climb: 34,400 ft/min (175 m/s)
* Lift-to-drag ratio: 10.0

[alexyflemming]

Supersonicity matters...

But the maneuvers are best with Supersonic jets than the others....

[Gnomey]

As ALMOST NONE of the manoeuvres performed are done at supersonic speeds it DOES NOT MATTER. Therefore it is pointless and useless to bring it up in this debate.

[alexyflemming]

Sorry, but you have no clue what you are talking about. The type of maneuvers that are done at airshows (the really crazy twisty turny stuff - too put it into terms that you might understand) are not conducted at high supersonic speeds...

By any team!



Yet you don't understand the videos you are posting, or anything that you are posting.

Maneuvers are FASTER with SUPERSONIC JETS. Of course, I know that during maneuvers, supersonicity is not used.

There is GIANT DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SUPERSONIC TEAMS AND THE OTHERS. DID NOT YOU OBSERVE THE AVERAGE SPEED OF THE AIR SHOWS RESPECTIVELY?! SLOW MOTION FEELING!

[alexyflemming]

As ALMOST NONE of the manoeuvres performed are done at supersonic speeds it DOES NOT MATTER. Therefore it is pointless and useless to bring it up in this debate.

Turkish Stars reachs to 1018 km/s in their maneuvers and sound speed is 1236 km/h.

Red Arrows do NOT have supersonic jets, hence you object to this.

I sent you the videos of Red Arrows and Turkish Stars. Look at the AVERAGE SPEED of their air show.

Red Arrows is good in tightness, but like a slow motion. Turkish Stars is BEST in tightness and the speed is very fast!

[Gnomey]

I do not object to the Red Arrows not having supersonic jets so stop putting words in my mouth.

What I object to is your fascination with speed being the defining factor of what makes the best aerobatic team. Well here is something for you it isn't. Speed doesn't mean anything as has been told to you repeatedly since you started posting in this thread. Each team does something different.

You also still have yet to produce any defining evidence of your claims other than your own made up ridiculously nationalist tables you have already posted.

[alexyflemming]

If I am not mistaken, the F5 was the basis for the T38 trainer in the US, which pilots trained in BEFORE they could step foot into a F-16. Explain to me how the F5 is a superior plane to the F16

Comparison is NOT between F-5 and F-16! Of Course, F-16>F-5.

But, both are SUPERSONIC.

I gave you the average speed of the air show of Turkish Stars. You did NOT.

Also, tightness of Turkish Stars in Blocked Helix Climbing is the BEST.

Also, THANKS FOR THE VIDEO LINK OF BLUE ANGLES YOU SENT. But, that video is very old (old jets of Blue Angle team). I wait for the video of Blue Angles WITH F-18A JETS!!!

[alexyflemming]

What I object to is your fascination with speed being the defining factor of what makes the best aerobatic team.

NOT THE DEFINING FACTOR BUT ONE OF THE PARAMETER: As I said many times:
if you watch the supersonic teams continuosly, then non-supersonic ones becomes you SLOW MOTION and YOU GET BORED.

Speed doesn't mean anything.

TIGHTNESS WITH HIGH SPEED IS ATTRACTIVE THAN TIGHTNESS WITH VERY LOW SPEED !




I wrote the Video Link of Turkish Stars to prove my claims also!