Best Aerobatic Team?

[Gnomey]

PLEASE GIVE THE LINK OF VIDEOS OF BEST SHOW OF THE OTHER SUPERSONIC AEROBATIC TEAMS….
I GAVE THAT FOR TURKISH STARS! IF YOU WRITE, ALL OF US CAN EASILY REALIZE MY DATA: “TURKISH STARS IS THE BEST AEROBATIC TEAM OF THE WORLD”

BULLSHIT. Your data is bullshit, your rational is bullshit, the whole lot is bullshit. What basis (other than 'national pride') do you have to qualify them. You are just talking bullshit....

[FLYBOYJ]

1F-5 has already been proved to be the BEST SUPERSONIC JET FOR AEROBATIC SHOWS. Many analysis were done before selecting that jet.

And where is your proof of that? Who did the analysis and what criterion was used?

The truth of analises were proven: Turkish Stars make better maneuvers than the teams having F-15, F-18, Su 27! (tightness, close mirror image,...). There are approximately 130 reasons why NF5 jets are the best jets for airshows.

And those 130 reasons based on a technical presentation of each aircraft?

These are THE SAME when the aerobatic teams perform IN THE SAME AIRSHOW PLACE! Hence, in some countries, the aforementioned aerobatic teams performed in the SAME WEEK in the SAME AIR CONDITIONS in the same AIRBASE!

WRONG - in the states and many other countries the aerobatic "BOX" changes based on the airfield in which the team is performing, especially if the show is at a civilian field and this is also governed by input of local Civil Aeronautics authority and the FAA if the show is in the US

If you fly alone, then the 3D-complexity-count is only 1 (you care to yourself, you do NOT need to care any block of jets other than you. You alone are the BLOCK.). If you fly with some other pilot together (2 planes), then 3D-complexity-count is 6 (A cares A, A cares B, B cares A, B cares B, A cares the 2-block, B cares the 2-block), If you fly with other 2 planes, then 3D-complexity-count increases (A needs to care NOT ONLY THE OTHER JETS separately, but also the other 2 planes (the BLOCKEDNESS of the other two)),… 3D-complexity-count exponentially increases.
Forming the BLOCK with 8 jets is HARDER THAN forming the BLOCK with 6 jets! One cannot turn tightly in safe feelings when the number increases!

And you know this how? Have you ever flown in a jet in an aerobatic formation?

Though the some of the aforementioned aerobatic teams are all SUPERSONIC, Turkish Stars performs “mirror image” better than the others even under difficult conditions (high speed & Low altitude)!
ALSO: Members of Turkish Stars are elected from F-16 squadrons of Turkish Air Force (F-16 that ThunderBirds uses!). Members of Turkish Stars performed “<1 meter mirror image” with F-16s as well when they are in F-16 squadrons. So, the ABSENCE of “<1 meter mirror image” of ThunderBirds comes from NOT the potential of the jet they use, but the capability they have (more truly, they do NOT have)!

And I would bet any of the other teams can do the same maneuver if permitted to do so and if the aircraft is capable of doing it as well as if it could be done safely. Again, have you ever flown in formation in a jet to express this is an authority?!?!?

Can the Turkish Stars do slow flight at 120 knots? I'll give you a hint, the F-5 stalls at 137 knots.


BTW - that at 125 knots

If I said “accident NUMBERS”, then you would be right. But, I said “accident RATES! The RATIO of accidents (number of accidents/<total shows+sorties>) are very high for Thunderbirds!

And of course the Thunderbird rates are going to be higher, they been around almost 5 times longer than the Stars and fly twice the shows.

Here's the Turkish Stars 2009 Schedule
Turkish Stars 2009 show schedule
23-24 May - Bulgaria, Plovdiv, Bulgarian International Aviation Festival
9-20 June - Holland, Volkel, Royal Netherlands Air Force Show-2009
26-27 June - Austria, Zeltweg Airpower-09
20 July - North Cyprus, Girne KKTC Peace And Freedeom Day
15 November - North Cyprus, Girne KKTC National Day

Thunderbirds
March
21-22 Luke AFB, AZ
28-29 MacDill AFB, FL
April
4-5 Keesler AFB, MS
18-19 Ceiba, Puerto Rico
25-26 Langley AFB, VA
May
2-3 Robins AFB, GA
9-10 Branson, MO
15-17 Andrews AFB, MD
23-24 Wantagh, NY (Jones Beach)
27 USAF Academy, CO
30-31 Ellsworth AFB, SD
June
6-7 Hill AFB, UT
13-14 Ocean City, MD
20-21 Dover AFB, DE
27-28 Helena, MT
July
4-5 Battle Creek, MI
11-12 Peoria, IL
18-19 Dayton, OH
22 Cheyenne, WY
25-26 Milwaukee, WI
August
8-9 Vienna, OH (Youngstown ARB)
15-16 Chicago, IL
19 Atlantic City, NJ
22-23 Selfridge ANGB, MI
29-30 Hillsboro, OR
September
5-7 Cleveland, OH
12-13 Sacramento, CA
19-20 Hickam AFB, HI
September 22- October 26
Thunderbirds 2009 Far East
Nov
7-8 Homestead ARB, FL
14-15 Nellis AFB, NV

Filling the open squares in the chart:
NOT possible for some squares: ThunderBirds uses F-16s, if their data is explained, then the capability of them is also revealed since there are F-16 squadrons in many countries. US Army does NOT want that.

The data is available to show flight performance of the F-16 and by the way, the US army does not operate F-16s.

PLEASE GIVE THE LINK OF VIDEOS OF BEST SHOW OF THE OTHER SUPERSONIC AEROBATIC TEAMS….
I GAVE THAT FOR TURKISH STARS! IF YOU WRITE, ALL OF US CAN EASILY REALIZE MY DATA: “TURKISH STARS IS THE BEST AEROBATIC TEAM OF THE WORLD”

Your data shows nothing but nationalistic pride and gibberish. You have provided no technical data, aircraft performance numbers, Wing loading and power to weight ratios to show the F-5 is "the best air show aircraft."

BTW most of this information you're lacking can be found on Wikipedia

[Messy1]

And your explanation of the missing data for the Thunderbirds is also bogus! I am guessing that since the F16 has been one of the most commercially successful fighter aircraft of all time as far as sales go, and since in your own words, "since there are F-16 squadrons in many countries", I'd say the performance capabilities of the F16 are well known all over the world, especially by those countries operating the F-16 outside of the US at the very least, I am sure they know the capabilities firsthand, they do not need the US Military to publish anything.

[Butters]

Not true, foolish Alexy from Turkey! Canadian Snowbirds fly not with child's-play 8 aircraft formation, but much more bad, scary feeling ELEVEN plane formations! And supersonic speed useless at airshow -only make many baby cry and window break!

Brave Canadian Snowbirds also fly so much closer than timid Turk pilots. Entire Snowbird formation could fly between huge gaps in nervous Turkish Stars formation! Snowbird formation actually fastened together by velcro on wing-tips. Is true! Rude Snowbird pilot thumb nose at Death!

Snowbirds are best! They are like flock of birds that fly very close in winter! Turkish team called 'Stars' because formations so far apart must be measured in light-years!

JL

[alexyflemming]

There are many objections raised from USA, Canada, UK.
Some gave me the links as well:

1.
WMV HD Content Showcase
Here, not clear which video I should watch.

2.
YouTube - The Horsemen at Flying Legends 2009
Aerobatic Show of PRE-HISTORIC AGES!

3.
YouTube - Blue Angels - RAW COCKPIT FOOTAGE
Blue Angels pilots’ undisciplined behaviours continues in their shows as well (Hear the sounds of the pilots).
Also, this is a cockpit video. I WANT NON-COCKPIT VIDEO.


BEST AEROBATIC SHOW OF THE WORLD BY THE BEST AEROBATIC TEAM OF THE WORLD)
AirPower09 Day 1 F 53 Tiger Turkish Stars Part.2
YouTube - AirPower09 Day 1 F 53 Tiger Turkish Stars Part.2

I DO NOT WANT TO READ ANY POST WITH NATIONALISTIC ATTITUDES.
I WANT A VIDEO PROOF THAT THERE IS ANOTHER AEROBATIC TEAM IN THE WORLD BETTER THAN TURKISH STARS. VIDEO PLEASE! NOT RIDICULUOUS WORDS BY THOSE WHO ARE FOREIGNER TO THE SUBJECT.

[FLYBOYJ]

I DO NOT WANT TO READ ANY POST WITH NATIONALISTIC ATTITUDES.
I WANT A VIDEO PROOF THAT THERE IS ANOTHER AEROBATIC TEAM IN THE WORLD BETTER THAN TURKISH STARS. VIDEO PLEASE! NOT RIDICULUOUS WORDS BY THOSE WHO ARE FOREIGNER TO THE SUBJECT.

ARE YOU A PILOT? HAVE YOU EVER PERFORMED IN AN AIRSHOW OR FLOWN A JET IN FORMATION???

You have provided no documented proof to support your aurguments. Video? Ha! THE VIDEO DOESN'T MEAN ANYTHING IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING AT!

I think you're just some ground pounding wanna-be that has never been in an airplane! Please come up with some substantiated proof from pilots or data from flight manuals to prove your points.

[pbfoot]

How many guys including maintainers are in the Turkish Stars the Snowbirds including Pilots and maintainers is 22 or 11 pilots and 11 maintainers and they perform over a far greater area usually over 1500 km away from their homebase

[Messy1]

I sense a lock-on coming for a kill soon.

[alexyflemming]

pbfoot:
I wondered who are Snowbirds: I examined and found that:
Canadian Snowbirds:
Canadair CL-41 Tutor : (never exceed speed: 763 km/h).

I already seperated the Aerobatic Teams in two main groups:
HORSES: Supersonic ones.
DONKEYS: Not supersonic ones.

Snowbirds even cannot make Turkish Primary School pupils (accostomed to HIGH SPEED ADRENALIN SHOWS) enjoy with them some couple of hours. They get bored immediately. Surely!

VIDEOS ARE STILL WAITING (for the objectors)!

[Messy1]

Alexy, your OPINION is not based on facts, it is your opinion. When make a post and cite figures on this forum, you need to have your stuff together and have complete figures for all items you are comparing. The members of this forum are very technical minded people, they eat and sleep facts, figures, stats, etc. You cannot provide anything except loose figures, and some videos you pulled off the web.

[alexyflemming]

DEFINITION OF MIRROR IMAGE:: Combing the hair from the cockpit of your friend (Less than 1 meters)


ANOTHER NICE DEFINITION:

[Gnomey]

I DO NOT WANT TO READ ANY POST WITH NATIONALISTIC ATTITUDES.

Have you read your own posts

[FLYBOYJ]

pbfoot:
I wondered who are Snowbirds: I examined and found that:
Canadian Snowbirds:
Canadair CL-41 Tutor : (never exceed speed: 763 km/h).

I already seperated the Aerobatic Teams in two main groups:
HORSES: Supersonic ones.
DONKEYS: Not supersonic ones.

Snowbirds even cannot make Turkish Primary School pupils (accostomed to HIGH SPEED ADRENALIN SHOWS) enjoy with them some couple of hours. They get bored immediately. Surely!

VIDEOS ARE STILL WAITING (for the objectors)!

OK - the gloves are off....

What does the speed of the aircraft or the show have to do with the team's ability to perform aerobatics?????? Evidently you are either very ignorant about flying or just very stupid or a combination of all of the above. Again you keep asking about video but you have displayed an ignorance about this subject matter so far that shows that you probably have never set foot in an aircraft. With that said if you don't start providing substancial proof of your arguments you will not be part of this equasion much longer.


And BTW - you keep posting crap about discrediting the Blue Angles - who is the one with the nationalistic attitude?!?! How about I keep posting articles about the way you guys are bombing the crap out of the Kurds?????

You're on thin ice, put your money where your mouth is or you will be shot into cyberspace!!!!

[alexyflemming]

I Sent VIDEOS (TO WATCH), Pictures (TO LOOK).
I ALSO EXPECT VIDEOS AND PICTURES IN RESPONSE NATURALLY.

NO NEED TO READ SOMETHING. SEND VIDEO. ALL I WANT IS THAT.

[Messy1]

Love this video! Dreams by Van Halen featuring the Blue Angels back in the 80's. Looks pretty precise to me, so precise all the maneuvers are in perfect synchronization with the music!

YouTube - Van Halen-Dreams (Blue Angels)