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03-31-2006, 11:41 AM
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#271 | | Master of Ewes
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 19,959
Country:  | Quote: |
The Luftwaffe lost 38 fighters
| out of interest are they american or german figures?
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"Reminds me of the time I sank the Tirpitz" comments a Spitfire pilot, "One pass of course, old boy." | 
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01-18-2007, 06:50 PM
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#272 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 406
Country: | Hi. First post and hopefully not my last.
Voted the Hurricane not because its my favorite but it is the plane that did more than any other to win the BOB, plus us Brits always love an underdog.
The 109 would have made a better showing if the NAZI's had maybe forced the cosmetic industry to cease the production of ladies makeup and made them concentrate on drop tanks as used in the the Spanish Civil War instead. Still even if they had this we could always fall back on strategic depth as shown later in France by the Germans.
Regarding a previous post regarding the use of Flak. Acording to my sources German flak required an average of 16,000 shells to knock down 1 B-17. Also toward the end of the war 1.25 million men were being used to man the guns in the Reich. Can't help thinking all that manpower and materials could have been better used elsewhere. Although visiable flak is a better morale booster than unseen effective nightfighters ask any Lanc pilot.
Last edited by bigZ : 01-18-2007 at 07:01 PM.
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01-19-2007, 10:40 AM
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#273 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 30,270
Country:  | While I agree that it took a lot of FLAK to bring down bombers I dont think it was 16,000 shells for one bomber.
The only way to tell would be to find out how many were fired throughout the whole war, which we will never ever know.
In 1944 FLAK accounted for 3501 USAAF aircraft shot down. On March 24, 1944 72 British Bombers were lost over Berlin, 50 of them were shot down by FLAK.
__________________  US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
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01-20-2007, 04:52 AM
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#274 | | Master of Ewes
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 19,959
Country: | i agree that Flak was vital, even in the BoB............
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"Reminds me of the time I sank the Tirpitz" comments a Spitfire pilot, "One pass of course, old boy." | |
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01-20-2007, 08:41 AM
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#275 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 30,270
Country: | FLAK was more deadly and caused more problems than people think.
__________________ US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
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01-21-2007, 04:23 AM
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#276 | | Master of Ewes
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 19,959
Country: | makes for a great scene in Downfall too  "Using das flak as artilery"
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"Reminds me of the time I sank the Tirpitz" comments a Spitfire pilot, "One pass of course, old boy." | |
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01-21-2007, 03:50 PM
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#277 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 30,270
Country: | Even thought that is a German movie, I still have not seen it. I really would like to.
__________________ US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
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01-22-2007, 08:11 PM
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#278 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 406
Country: | My source for the 16000 rounds to 1 bomber down was taken form the 'Rise and Fall of the Luftwaffe' by Eagle editions.
Heres another source confirming the figure. Pre-Nike (Anti Aircraft Guns)
German author Werner Muller in his book "The Heavy Flak Guns" said,"Based on average monthly ammunition consumption in 1944, it took 16,000 rounds of 88mm gunfire to bring down one four engine bomber." | |
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01-23-2007, 12:39 PM
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#279 | | Master of Ewes
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 19,959
Country: | Quote:
Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet  Even thought that is a German movie, I still have not seen it. I really would like to. | it's a phenominal film you'll really enjoy it..........
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"Reminds me of the time I sank the Tirpitz" comments a Spitfire pilot, "One pass of course, old boy." | |
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03-20-2007, 06:56 PM
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#280 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Evesham, UK
Posts: 180
Country: | The Spitfire did alot to keep the spirits up of the brits on the ground, but stats-wise I should really vote for somthing else...
How could I betray the spitfire though? It's like an aussie opting for somthing fried instead of a BBQ... | |
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03-20-2007, 07:11 PM
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#281 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: London
Posts: 2,878
| If I had to chose the best I would go for the Ju88.
The Spit and 109 were equally good and who lived and who died, depended on the tactical position and/or the skill of the pilot.
The Ju88 was however in a class of its own when it came to bombing. | |
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03-21-2007, 01:22 PM
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#282 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 30,270
Country: | Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajax The Spitfire did alot to keep the spirits up of the brits on the ground, but stats-wise I should really vote for somthing else...
How could I betray the spitfire though? It's like an aussie opting for somthing fried instead of a BBQ... | You do realize that the Hurricane was more of a "Hero" in the BoB than the Spitfire right?
__________________ US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
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03-21-2007, 02:30 PM
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#283 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Jacksonville, NC
Posts: 3,261
Country:  | Quote:
Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet You do realize that the Hurricane was more of a "Hero" in the BoB than the Spitfire right? | I've said before - the Hurricane was a war winner for the UK. Right plane, right place, right time, even though it may have been outclassed by the spit.
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If the Army and the Navy ever look on heaven's scenes, they will find the streets are guarded by United States Marines | |
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03-21-2007, 03:10 PM
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#284 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,024
| The Bf-109 takes the prize IMO because of the fact that it was the fastest aircraft during BoB, and because it did remarkably well considering the circumstances under which it had to fight.
Fast, maneuverable and equipped with fuel injection the 109 is the best fighter of that period. Not by much though.
__________________  We have built a total of about 1250 of this aircraft (Me-262), but only fifty were allowed to be used as fighters - as interceptors. And out of this fifty, there were never more than 25 operational. So we had only a very, very few.
- Adolf Galland | |
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03-21-2007, 03:55 PM
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#285 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Canada
Posts: 125
Country:  | hurricane gets my vote, was easier to fly, more forgiving of a bad pilot( not that that would help in a dog fight) could take alot of damage and still make it home. | |
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