Best Battle of Britain Aircraft - Page 19 - Aircraft of World War II

the lancaster kicks ass · 03-31-2006, 10:41 AM

Quote:

The Luftwaffe lost 38 fighters

out of interest are they american or german figures?

bigZ · 01-18-2007, 05:50 PM

Hi. First post and hopefully not my last.

Voted the Hurricane not because its my favorite but it is the plane that did more than any other to win the BOB, plus us Brits always love an underdog.

The 109 would have made a better showing if the NAZI's had maybe forced the cosmetic industry to cease the production of ladies makeup and made them concentrate on drop tanks as used in the the Spanish Civil War instead. Still even if they had this we could always fall back on strategic depth as shown later in France by the Germans.

Regarding a previous post regarding the use of Flak. Acording to my sources German flak required an average of 16,000 shells to knock down 1 B-17. Also toward the end of the war 1.25 million men were being used to man the guns in the Reich. Can't help thinking all that manpower and materials could have been better used elsewhere. Although visiable flak is a better morale booster than unseen effective nightfighters ask any Lanc pilot.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 01-19-2007, 09:40 AM

While I agree that it took a lot of FLAK to bring down bombers I dont think it was 16,000 shells for one bomber.

The only way to tell would be to find out how many were fired throughout the whole war, which we will never ever know.

In 1944 FLAK accounted for 3501 USAAF aircraft shot down. On March 24, 1944 72 British Bombers were lost over Berlin, 50 of them were shot down by FLAK.

the lancaster kicks ass · 01-20-2007, 03:52 AM

i agree that Flak was vital, even in the BoB............

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 01-20-2007, 07:41 AM

FLAK was more deadly and caused more problems than people think.

the lancaster kicks ass · 01-21-2007, 03:23 AM

makes for a great scene in Downfall too

"Using das flak as artilery"

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 01-21-2007, 02:50 PM

Even thought that is a German movie, I still have not seen it. I really would like to.

bigZ · 01-22-2007, 07:11 PM

My source for the 16000 rounds to 1 bomber down was taken form the 'Rise and Fall of the Luftwaffe' by Eagle editions.

Heres another source confirming the figure.

Pre-Nike (Anti Aircraft Guns)

German author Werner Muller in his book "The Heavy Flak Guns" said,"Based on average monthly ammunition consumption in 1944, it took 16,000 rounds of 88mm gunfire to bring down one four engine bomber."

the lancaster kicks ass · 01-23-2007, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

Even thought that is a German movie, I still have not seen it. I really would like to.

it's a phenominal film you'll really enjoy it..........

Ajax · 03-20-2007, 05:56 PM

The Spitfire did alot to keep the spirits up of the brits on the ground, but stats-wise I should really vote for somthing else...

How could I betray the spitfire though? It's like an aussie opting for somthing fried instead of a BBQ...

Glider · 03-20-2007, 06:11 PM

If I had to chose the best I would go for the Ju88.
The Spit and 109 were equally good and who lived and who died, depended on the tactical position and/or the skill of the pilot.

The Ju88 was however in a class of its own when it came to bombing.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 03-21-2007, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ajax

The Spitfire did alot to keep the spirits up of the brits on the ground, but stats-wise I should really vote for somthing else...

How could I betray the spitfire though? It's like an aussie opting for somthing fried instead of a BBQ...

You do realize that the Hurricane was more of a "Hero" in the BoB than the Spitfire right?

mkloby · 03-21-2007, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

You do realize that the Hurricane was more of a "Hero" in the BoB than the Spitfire right?

I've said before - the Hurricane was a war winner for the UK. Right plane, right place, right time, even though it may have been outclassed by the spit.

Soren · 03-21-2007, 02:10 PM

The Bf-109 takes the prize IMO because of the fact that it was the fastest aircraft during BoB, and because it did remarkably well considering the circumstances under which it had to fight.

Fast, maneuverable and equipped with fuel injection the 109 is the best fighter of that period. Not by much though.

Bernhart · 03-21-2007, 02:55 PM

hurricane gets my vote, was easier to fly, more forgiving of a bad pilot( not that that would help in a dog fight) could take alot of damage and still make it home.

View Poll Results: Best Battle of Britain aircraft?
Supermarine Spitfire	333	45.87%
Hawker Hurricane	147	20.25%
Bolton-Paul Defiant	7	0.96%
Bristol Beaufighter	8	1.10%
Messerschmitt Bf-109	146	20.11%
Messerschmitt Me-110	22	3.03%
Heinkel He-111	16	2.20%
Dornier Do-17	4	0.55%
Junkers Ju-87 Stuka	19	2.62%
Junkers Ju-88	24	3.31%
Voters: 726. You may not vote on this poll

01-18-2007, 05:50 PM	#272
bigZ Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 570	Hi. First post and hopefully not my last. Voted the Hurricane not because its my favorite but it is the plane that did more than any other to win the BOB, plus us Brits always love an underdog. The 109 would have made a better showing if the NAZI's had maybe forced the cosmetic industry to cease the production of ladies makeup and made them concentrate on drop tanks as used in the the Spanish Civil War instead. Still even if they had this we could always fall back on strategic depth as shown later in France by the Germans. Regarding a previous post regarding the use of Flak. Acording to my sources German flak required an average of 16,000 shells to knock down 1 B-17. Also toward the end of the war 1.25 million men were being used to man the guns in the Reich. Can't help thinking all that manpower and materials could have been better used elsewhere. Although visiable flak is a better morale booster than unseen effective nightfighters ask any Lanc pilot. Last edited by bigZ; 01-18-2007 at 06:01 PM.

01-19-2007, 09:40 AM	#273
DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crewchief Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany Posts: 34,079	While I agree that it took a lot of FLAK to bring down bombers I dont think it was 16,000 shells for one bomber. The only way to tell would be to find out how many were fired throughout the whole war, which we will never ever know. In 1944 FLAK accounted for 3501 USAAF aircraft shot down. On March 24, 1944 72 British Bombers were lost over Berlin, 50 of them were shot down by FLAK. __________________ fly boy:"isnt that the first jet bomber becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles"

01-20-2007, 03:52 AM	#274
the lancaster kicks ass Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 19,945	i agree that Flak was vital, even in the BoB............ __________________ "Reminds me of the time I sank the Tirpitz" comments a Spitfire pilot, "One pass of course, old boy."

01-20-2007, 07:41 AM	#275
DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crewchief Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany Posts: 34,079	FLAK was more deadly and caused more problems than people think. __________________ fly boy:"isnt that the first jet bomber becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles"

01-21-2007, 03:23 AM	#276
the lancaster kicks ass Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 19,945	makes for a great scene in Downfall too "Using das flak as artilery" __________________ "Reminds me of the time I sank the Tirpitz" comments a Spitfire pilot, "One pass of course, old boy."

01-21-2007, 02:50 PM	#277
DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crewchief Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany Posts: 34,079	Even thought that is a German movie, I still have not seen it. I really would like to. __________________ fly boy:"isnt that the first jet bomber becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles"

01-22-2007, 07:11 PM	#278
bigZ Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 570	My source for the 16000 rounds to 1 bomber down was taken form the 'Rise and Fall of the Luftwaffe' by Eagle editions. Heres another source confirming the figure. Pre-Nike (Anti Aircraft Guns) German author Werner Muller in his book "The Heavy Flak Guns" said,"Based on average monthly ammunition consumption in 1944, it took 16,000 rounds of 88mm gunfire to bring down one four engine bomber."

03-20-2007, 05:56 PM	#280
Ajax Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Evesham, UK Posts: 168	The Spitfire did alot to keep the spirits up of the brits on the ground, but stats-wise I should really vote for somthing else... How could I betray the spitfire though? It's like an aussie opting for somthing fried instead of a BBQ...

03-20-2007, 06:11 PM	#281
Glider Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: London Posts: 3,917	If I had to chose the best I would go for the Ju88. The Spit and 109 were equally good and who lived and who died, depended on the tactical position and/or the skill of the pilot. The Ju88 was however in a class of its own when it came to bombing.

03-21-2007, 02:10 PM	#284
Soren Banned Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 6,625	The Bf-109 takes the prize IMO because of the fact that it was the fastest aircraft during BoB, and because it did remarkably well considering the circumstances under which it had to fight. Fast, maneuverable and equipped with fuel injection the 109 is the best fighter of that period. Not by much though.

03-21-2007, 02:55 PM	#285
Bernhart Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 220	hurricane gets my vote, was easier to fly, more forgiving of a bad pilot( not that that would help in a dog fight) could take alot of damage and still make it home.

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