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01-26-2006, 12:44 PM
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#271 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 13,004
Country:  | Quote: |
Originally Posted by LTARaptr How many bomber were shot down when escorted by the Tuskeegee Airmen? And what plane did they fly? Nuff said. | And your point?!?
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01-26-2006, 02:06 PM
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#272 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 533
| Surely there should be at least 4 categories:
Best dogfighter below 300mph above 15000ft
Best dogfighter below 300mph below 15000ft
Best dogfighter above 300mph above 15000ft
Best dogfighter above 300mph below 15000ft
etc | |
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01-26-2006, 02:52 PM
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#273 | | the old Sage
Join Date: May 2004 Location: Platonic Sphere
Posts: 8,988
Country: | Fly he has not point, the fact is the Black pilots were ordered and not to deviate from proteecting the bombers while other P-51 groups of the 15th could engage Luftw prop and jets at will. A few tangles with Me 262's did occur almost by luck and several notables in the all black unit were shot down and made POW. I have to hand it to the all black fg as they did a marvelous job in protection and they are quite an overlooked bunch of chaps | |
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01-26-2006, 03:12 PM
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#274 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 13,004
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Originally Posted by Erich Fly he has not point, the fact is the Black pilots were ordered and not to deviate from proteecting the bombers while other P-51 groups of the 15th could engage Luftw prop and jets at will. A few tangles with Me 262's did occur almost by luck and several notables in the all black unit were shot down and made POW. I have to hand it to the all black fg as they did a marvelous job in protection and they are quite an overlooked bunch of chaps | Yep!!
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01-26-2006, 03:14 PM
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#275 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 2,205
Country:  | They did a great job and were under appreciated at the time.
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01-26-2006, 05:04 PM
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#276 | | Minister of Whoopass
Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Long Island Native in Mississippi
Posts: 12,953
Country: | Quote:
Surely there should be at least 4 categories:
Best dogfighter below 300mph above 15000ft
Best dogfighter below 300mph below 15000ft
Best dogfighter above 300mph above 15000ft
Best dogfighter above 300mph below 15000ft
etc
| Surely there would be, but this is an overall accounting, on an individuals opinion, so just vote dammit...
__________________  "Boyington was a Drunk, but He was a Drunk We'd Follow Straight Into Hell..."
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01-26-2006, 05:05 PM
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#277 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 13,004
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Originally Posted by lesofprimus Quote:
Surely there should be at least 4 categories:
Best dogfighter below 300mph above 15000ft
Best dogfighter below 300mph below 15000ft
Best dogfighter above 300mph above 15000ft
Best dogfighter above 300mph below 15000ft
etc
| Surely there would be, but this is an overall accounting, on an individuals opinion, so just vote dammit... |  -190D
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01-28-2006, 07:40 AM
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#278 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 29,456
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Originally Posted by LTARaptr How many bomber were shot down when escorted by the Tuskeegee Airmen? And what plane did they fly? Nuff said. | They also did not go up against any pilots such as Hartmann and Baer.
The best dogfighter in my opinions hand down goes to the Fw-190D and the Spitfire.
__________________  US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
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01-28-2006, 09:24 AM
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#279 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Royal Deeside/St Andrews, Scotland, UK
Posts: 11,231
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Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet Quote: |
Originally Posted by LTARaptr How many bomber were shot down when escorted by the Tuskeegee Airmen? And what plane did they fly? Nuff said. | They also did not go up against any pilots such as Hartmann and Baer.
The best dogfighter in my opinions hand down goes to the Fw-190D and the Spitfire. | Agreed.
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01-28-2006, 04:22 PM
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#280 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 1,178
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by Gnomey Quote: |
Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet Quote: |
Originally Posted by LTARaptr How many bomber were shot down when escorted by the Tuskeegee Airmen? And what plane did they fly? Nuff said. | They also did not go up against any pilots such as Hartmann and Baer.
The best dogfighter in my opinions hand down goes to the Fw-190D and the Spitfire. | Agreed. | And the P-38 could fight right there with them 800mi from base!
wmaxt | |
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01-28-2006, 04:24 PM
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#281 | | Minister of Whoopass
Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Long Island Native in Mississippi
Posts: 12,953
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And the P-38 could fight right there with them 800mi from base!
| Over enemy held territory...
__________________ "Boyington was a Drunk, but He was a Drunk We'd Follow Straight Into Hell..."
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01-28-2006, 04:28 PM
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#282 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 1,178
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Originally Posted by lesofprimus Quote: |
And the P-38 could fight right there with them 800mi from base!
| Over enemy held territory... | Yep - and then the next day drop 3,200 lbs (H model) or more on a target.
wmaxt | |
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01-28-2006, 04:41 PM
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#283 | | Minister of Whoopass
Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Long Island Native in Mississippi
Posts: 12,953
Country: | Nope, the next day he's getting interrogated at a local POW collection center...
__________________ "Boyington was a Drunk, but He was a Drunk We'd Follow Straight Into Hell..."
-- Lt. William Northrop Case | |
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01-28-2006, 04:44 PM
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#284 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 12,057
Country: | Or get his ass-kicked for trying to shoot down a Spitfire.
__________________ "When you go home tomorrow, don't expect anyone to know what you have been through. Even if they did know, most people probably wouldn't care anyway. Some of you may get the medals you deserve, many more of you will not. But remember this, all of you are now members of the front-line club, and that is the most exclusive club in the world." - Lt. Col. Matthew Maer CO 1st Battalion, the Princess of Wale's Royal Regiment. Camp Abu Naji, Oct. 2004  To those in that club. | |
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01-28-2006, 05:00 PM
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#285 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 1,178
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Originally Posted by lesofprimus Nope, the next day he's getting interrogated at a local POW collection center... | Not that sure, in air to air combat in the ETO it had a 4:1 kill rate (The 8th AF only lost 451 P-38s total) excluding the AA fire they had to contend with on ground attack missions which made up just over half the sorties the P-38 made in the ETO. In the MTO the ratio was 5:1.
Though if he did go down he was captured but thats a risk you take when you take the war to the enemy over his turf - something the P-38 did better than the Spitfire or the Fw-190. It's a point several Japanese pilots and military leaders noted when they mentioned that they never knew where or when the P-38s would turn up.
wmaxt | |
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