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02-10-2006, 12:33 PM
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#331 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 29,856
Country:  | I use Wikipedia as well sometimes, however it is not the best source for material.
Good post up there FBJ.
__________________  US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | 
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02-10-2006, 12:46 PM
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#332 | | "Shooter"
Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Moorpark, CA
Posts: 12,750
Country:  | Agreed. The nickname "the fork-tailed devil" is a myth.
__________________  http://www.vg-photo.com Wherever their bones may lie, the courage of heroes is consecrated in the hearts and engraved in the history of the free. Lt Col Honner DSO MC, 39th Commander speaking of the dead from the battle of Kokoda. | |
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02-10-2006, 06:14 PM
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#333 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 29,856
Country: | Everyone believes it though.
__________________ US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
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03-02-2006, 04:13 AM
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#334 | | Junior Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2
| The Hurricane was the tightest turning aircraft the RAF operated in the early years it could even out turn a spitfire! its weakness was overall it was not as nimble as the spitfire or as fast thus it was used mainly in the bomber destroyer role during the battle of britain. The hurricane was an excellent and stable gun platform and performed well but on the whole I think the spitfire was the better air to air fighter a unique design years before the P51 better than the ME109 it has to be the best fighter of WW2.
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nwspitfire1940 | |
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03-02-2006, 06:26 AM
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#335 | | Minister of Whoopass
Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Long Island Native in Mississippi
Posts: 13,195
Country: | Quote: |
thus it was used mainly in the bomber destroyer role during the battle of britain.
| Huh??? No it wasnt....
__________________  "Boyington was a Drunk, but He was a Drunk We'd Follow Straight Into Hell..."
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03-02-2006, 10:38 AM
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#336 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 29,856
Country: | Quote: |
Originally Posted by spitfire1940 The Hurricane was the tightest turning aircraft the RAF operated in the early years it could even out turn a spitfire! its weakness was overall it was not as nimble as the spitfire or as fast thus it was used mainly in the bomber destroyer role during the battle of britain. The hurricane was an excellent and stable gun platform and performed well but on the whole I think the spitfire was the better air to air fighter a unique design years before the P51 better than the ME109 it has to be the best fighter of WW2. | Disagree with you to an extent. It was not way better than the Bf-109 and it was an equal to the Fw-190D.
__________________ US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
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03-02-2006, 11:16 AM
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#337 | | Junior Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2
| The Hawker Hurricane was I admit not only used as a bomber destroyer but when the RAF used the big wing tactics towards the end of the battle of Britain the spitfires task was to break up the bomber formations attracting the escorting ME109 to tangle with then as the superior performance of the spitfire enabled them to do this. The bomber waves would now tangle with Hurricanes sent up to destroy them obviously they met with fighter escort but the RAF after the battle of France became aware of the hurricanes weakness in air to air with the faster Me109's if anybody doubt this I can recommend a few literary references to check this!
There is no argument that the hurricane was also used in the fighter to fighter role but after the early lessons stated the RAF changed tactics to great effect.
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03-02-2006, 12:11 PM
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#338 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Edmonton,Alberta
Posts: 2,260
Country:  | Quote: |
Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet Quote: |
Originally Posted by spitfire1940 The Hurricane was the tightest turning aircraft the RAF operated in the early years it could even out turn a spitfire! its weakness was overall it was not as nimble as the spitfire or as fast thus it was used mainly in the bomber destroyer role during the battle of britain. The hurricane was an excellent and stable gun platform and performed well but on the whole I think the spitfire was the better air to air fighter a unique design years before the P51 better than the ME109 it has to be the best fighter of WW2. | Disagree with you to an extent. It was not way better than the Bf-109 and it was an equal to the Fw-190D. | Someone on this site said the Me-109 itself was really no good unless flown by a capable pilot, Well with that said the Hurricane was a much simpler plane to fly, newly trained pilots had a better chance of surviving the first 2 or 3 weeks of combat than they would in a Spitfire or newby -109 pilots.
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Hello me...meet the real me.
And my misfits way of life.
A dark black past is my
Most valued possession.
Hindsight is always 20-20,
But looking back its still a bit fuzzy.
Speak of mutually assured destruction?
Nice story...tell it to readers digest!!! | |
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03-10-2006, 06:35 PM
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#339 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,848
Country:  | any newbie pilot wouldnt do well...
__________________  "The German Luftwaffe always fought without any reserves. This is also the reason why we have pilots with extremely high numbers of victories."
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03-31-2006, 11:13 PM
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#340 | | Member
Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: mineral wells texas
Posts: 42
| the hellcat .
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04-01-2006, 12:18 AM
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#341 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,848
Country: | the Hellcat was a Zero killer, but what about when it faced the Franks and the Georges? maybe it was a match for the Tony though
__________________ "The German Luftwaffe always fought without any reserves. This is also the reason why we have pilots with extremely high numbers of victories."
- General der Jagdflieger Adolf Galland" | |
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04-01-2006, 08:52 AM
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#342 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 13,242
Country: | Quote: |
Originally Posted by loomaluftwaffe the Hellcat was a Zero killer, but what about when it faced the Franks and the Georges? maybe it was a match for the Tony though | It still ate all of them, mainly becuase of pilot training......
__________________ "IF ITS RED OR DUSTY, DON'T TOUCH IT"  | |
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04-01-2006, 04:35 PM
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#343 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 1,178
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Originally Posted by evangilder Agreed. The nickname "the fork-tailed devil" is a myth. | That might or might not be the truth - I don't know. Consider this before you dismiss this as out of hand.At the time and place 1943, North Africa/Sicily/Sardinia, that this "name" is supposed to have begun, this was the situation in the Med as described by the German Commander of Sardinia's Luftwaffe force, Johannes Stienhoff.
In his book "Messerschmidt's Over Sicily", he writes that the air defense of the island was "hopless". Stienhoff in his bid for reinforcements, told Galland that the "Luftwaffe no longer held the qualitative or quantitative advantage. The fact that American P-38s could and would turn up anywhere at any time was very troubling. Moreover, The clear superiority of the Lightning, in both speed and maneuverability, was especially disconcerting".
Like I said above, I can't prove it one way or the other, In light of Stienhoff's statement to the General of the Air Force Galland and the situation at the time, it certainly cannot be dismissed out of hand. Lastly, is there anyone who can categorically disprove it?
I'm not going to push it either way - I certainly don't have enough information. I'm also not going to accept a flat statement either way! Just my opinion.
wmax
Last edited by wmaxt : 04-01-2006 at 04:43 PM.
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04-04-2006, 09:33 PM
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#344 | | Member
Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: mineral wells texas
Posts: 42
| the hellcat has the best kill to loss ratio of any us fighter . yes ki 84 frank was a great fighter , and the NIK2 shiden or George KI 61 and 100 tonys . The frank intered service march of 43 and did not get to combat till early 44 the speed rate of climb is slightly better at best and it could not out turn the big cat or take hits like the cat .
since it was in service for over a year and production reached over 3700 it do dought fought against it , since it was a army plane it did not suffer like the zero persay in the fact the the best pilots drowned , the frank had more trouble was it lost its wings flaps ect in stress , that is very bad for the frank driver , i dont here of that happening to the cat so i was sat the cat would and as a dogfighter it would have beat the frank hands down
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04-04-2006, 09:50 PM
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#345 | | Member
Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: mineral wells texas
Posts: 42
| KI 61 Tony came into sevice april of 43 ,2650 + were made so there is no dought that met the hellcat like the frank . in spec's the cat 3400 + climb . rate eats the 2200 of tony alive roll rate for the tony was just as bad and turning the cat could out turn it easy , so hands down it coould beat the Tony
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