Best Dogfighter Poll Revisited...

FLYBOYJ · 04-04-2006, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lonestarman63

the hellcat has the best kill to loss ratio of any us fighter . yes ki 84 frank was a great fighter , and the NIK2 shiden or George KI 61 and 100 tonys . The frank intered service march of 43 and did not get to combat till early 44 the speed rate of climb is slightly better at best and it could not out turn the big cat or take hits like the cat .
since it was in service for over a year and production reached over 3700 it do dought fought against it , since it was a army plane it did not suffer like the zero persay in the fact the the best pilots drowned , the frank had more trouble was it lost its wings flaps ect in stress , that is very bad for the frank driver , i dont here of that happening to the cat so i was sat the cat would and as a dogfighter it would have beat the frank hands down

The Hellcat was a great aircraft - it also had a target rich enviornment against sub-par competition...............

loomaluftwaffe · 04-04-2006, 10:12 PM

Aside from the engine.. what were the problems of th N1K2-j? i know the undercarriage problem was fixed

lonestarman63 · 04-08-2006, 08:51 AM

the point being the hellcat , just did not just meet the zero's from japan. as japan had army fighters everywhere also and the hellcat did great agaist them great them as well if yo take in to where they meaning japan made the Ki 100 and Ki61 tonys and the Ki 84 Frank
a little after the hellcat came into service in 1943 so yes the most part was against sub par foes yet that was what it was built for to take out the zero little else and it did it better than any other us fighter weith very lil changes to the planes so as to dog fighting it was the best in what one would say a dog fighter was to do for in fact there were very few real dog fighters in ww 2 one could say that in fact of the many types one two that were the zero and the hellcat i mean in great amounts the rest could not fight toe to toe in what one would call i dog fight agaist the zero none of the other fighters could stay in a turning fight with the zero not the spit
ect , none yet the one ship that was made for that was the hellcat and it did ,not that it could turn with the zero , it came closest , and did kill the zero all others had to use the dive and run , hellcats did also but they could mix it up if they had to. so that is the reason i choose the hellcat as the best dog fighter. not the best fighter

FLYBOYJ · 04-08-2006, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lonestarman63

the point being the hellcat , just did not just meet the zero's from japan. as japan had army fighters everywhere also and the hellcat did great agaist them great them as well if yo take in to where they meaning japan made the Ki 100 and Ki61 tonys and the Ki 84 Frank
a little after the hellcat came into service in 1943 so yes the most part was against sub par foes yet that was what it was built for to take out the zero little else and it did it better than any other us fighter weith very lil changes to the planes so as to dog fighting it was the best in what one would say a dog fighter was to do for in fact there were very few real dog fighters in ww 2 one could say that in fact of the many types one two that were the zero and the hellcat i mean in great amounts the rest could not fight toe to toe in what one would call i dog fight agaist the zero none of the other fighters could stay in a turning fight with the zero not the spit
ect , none yet the one ship that was made for that was the hellcat and it did ,not that it could turn with the zero , it came closest , and did kill the zero all others had to use the dive and run , hellcats did also but they could mix it up if they had to. so that is the reason i choose the hellcat as the best dog fighter. not the best fighter

And when you say "dogfighter" you put a very simplistic view on this - ask any fighter pilot, the object IS NOT to dog fight - it's to close in on your enemy and shoot him down - PERIOD! If you're placed in a situation where you're twisting and turning for more and 30 seconds, you already failed to gain the initiative and it may cost you you're life. The Hellact took on opponents in great numbers along with mainly inferior pilots flying the opposition, as far as the aircraft itself, if it fought the Zero below 300 mph it was easily out maneuvered, and this has been pr oven during and after WW2 (I witnessed this myself during a mock "dogfight" at Chino Airport).

There were many other aircraft that well better than the Hellcat on all counts - the Hellcat just was at the right place at the right time to severely maul the Japanese, and it did its job well, but as far as maneuverability and performance, it was not "Top Dog."

lonestarman63 · 04-08-2006, 09:19 AM

the point of the poll was dog fighter, not fight and run

lonestarman63 · 04-08-2006, 09:26 AM

and a mock fight has nothen to do with real fight ie , for exsample when i was in the army i saw a F 4 going against a f 16 and the f 4 one the fight , is that saying the f 4 was better than the 16 no it was the pilot not the plane so in case of many fights agaisnt many types and many grades of fighters pilots is the only way to look at a planes weekness or streths not a mock fight or one time ingagment

lesofprimus · 04-08-2006, 09:39 AM

And maybe u need to go back to school and learn how to spell.... nothen is nothing, exsample is example, one is won, weekness is weakness, streths is strengths, and ingagment is engagement...

And the F4 winning an engagement with an F-16 means the Falcon pilot was either sleeping or some nugget straight outta OCS, or ur whole little story is bullshit....

The Hellcat could not and did not turn with the Zero below 300mph....

And for the record, how does an Army puke get to witness mock combat between 2 non-Army aircraft, and how do u know who won???

FLYBOYJ · 04-08-2006, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lonestarman63

the point of the poll was dog fighter, not fight and run

No - the point was which aircraft, if placed in a Dogfight was the best aircraft - and the Hellcat, while sporting a very impressive combat record, doesn't come close to other aircraft shown here as far as maneuverability and performance.....

I'd bet dollars to donuts that the vast majority of F6F WW2 kills were accomplished with the Hellcat bearing down on its opponent at high speed and blasting away......

In a real dogfight if you loose the initiative you better run if you want to live!!!!

And the mock dogfight I witnessed wasn't a "one time deal." Several flights were made and both pilots were highly skilled. Bottom line the Zero won when it forced the Hellcat to fight on its terms....

Hunter368 · 04-08-2006, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lesofprimus

And maybe u need to go back to school and learn how to spell.... nothen is nothing, exsample is example, one is won, weekness is weakness, streths is strengths, and ingagment is engagement...

And the F4 winning an engagement with an F-16 means the Falcon pilot was either sleeping or some nugget straight outta OCS, or ur whole little story is bullshit....

The Hellcat could not and did not turn with the Zero below 300mph....

And for the record, how does an Army puke get to witness mock combat between 2 non-Army aircraft, and how do u know who won???

Ohhhh Les you can be funny at times.

lesofprimus · 04-08-2006, 11:14 AM

Im funny MOST of the time, and just plain pathetic the rest... My above post is indeed quite funny, according to the Comedy Central Laugh-o-Meter Scale...

Henk · 04-08-2006, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lesofprimus

Im funny MOST of the time, and just plain pathetic the rest... My above post is indeed quite funny, according to the Comedy Central Laugh-o-Meter Scale...

Henk

loomaluftwaffe · 04-08-2006, 08:53 PM

nice
and dude, who in the right mind would put such a big and heavy plane in a dogfight against a little Japanese Zero or an Oscar?

lesofprimus · 04-08-2006, 10:54 PM

David McCampbell....

lonestarman63 · 04-09-2006, 01:10 AM

first off i was with a pilot on the ground he was or is a pilot and was working with the ground forces as a pathfinder , second the us was the country that was crazy to put up against them, and agaisnt the zero > the hellcat had a better record the any other type . spit or other wise thank very much beside do you have to be rude to try and make a point , to those that were, sorry to flyboy i do see your point and as far as the army goes , what would you know

pbfoot · 04-09-2006, 06:56 AM

I think it would be next to impossible to figure out who won a dog fight from the ground if they were low enough to see them as they work at 9 miles a minute binoculars would be useless because of lateral separation so how could you determine who got into firing position or even if they had a firing solution