Best fixed-gear monoplane fighter?

[Juha]

Hello Kool Kitty
According to Finnish tests D. XXI max speed was 418 km/h.

Juha

[Oreo]

that's not very fast-- I think the dutch version was a little faster, maybe

[Oreo]

According to: WW2 Warbirds: the Fokker D.XXI - Frans Bonn

The top speed of the D.XXI-2 at altitude (16,730 ft) was 386 mph.

Not sure but I''m thinking that might supposed to be 286 mph. The figure I was thinking of for the D.21 was around 276, which would put it right smack in the middle of the other three for performance. By the way, does anyone know how the PZL did for maneuverability versus the others? We know it's slower, it did have 4-gun armament available, and with the high gull wing vision must have been excellent. It managed to hold its own against the German bombers, but was a full 100 mph slower than Bf 109E.

[kool kitty89]

THe takeoff ratings for the Finnish D.XXI with 825 hp Twin Wasp Jr. was similar to the Dutch version's 830 hp Mercury, but I think the critical altitude for the Wasp was around 12,000 ft while the Mercury was at ~16,500 ft.

However the 286 mph figure may have been mistakenly mixed in, as that seems to be the figure for the Pegasus powered version.

[Juha]

Hello Kool Kitty
I should have made it clear on my earlier message, 418 km/h was for Mercury powered version.
Max speed for Twin Wasp Jr engined version was 361,5 km/h at 2500 m.

Juha

[Oreo]

Well, the only book I seem to have on hand with the D.21 seems to indicate 286 mph at 16,732 ft for the Mercury 8 version, and a service ceiling of 36,000 ft, which is higher than pilots could normally go without getting the bends. Most impressive, that, and yet it must be remembered that most P-39's had service ceiling of 34-37,000 feet, and yet we've been told their flight characteristics were no good over 16,000 ft, so service ceiling is not really a super good indication of capabilities.

[kool kitty89]

Fokker DXXI

That site has figures that seem to match the "normal" ones, but the Finnish figures seem a bit lower. (possibly the usualy figures are caculated and not test data)

Though those Finnish figures make the Gladiator compare favorably...


But I've seen high figures for some of the others too. (292 mph for the Ki-27)

[Oreo]

Fokker DXXI

But I've seen high figures for some of the others too. (292 mph for the Ki-27)

I've seen those figures before, too. Don't know if it was a different version, a different test, or just a bunch of hooey. Who knows?

[Marcel]

According to my figures the D.XXI was rated at 460 km/h maximum level speed, don't know at which altitude, though. Cruise speed should have been around 430 km/h according to these figures. These are LVA figures, but I'm not sure how accurate they are.

[Oreo]

According to my figures the D.XXI was rated at 460 km/h maximum level speed, don't know at which altitude, though. Cruise speed should have been around 430 km/h according to these figures. These are LVA figures, but I'm not sure how accurate they are.

287 mph, then, which would about make it the fastest of our options, except maybe some Hawk 75's.

[marshall]

By the way, does anyone know how the PZL did for maneuverability versus the others? We know it's slower, it did have 4-gun armament available, and with the high gull wing vision must have been excellent. It managed to hold its own against the German bombers, but was a full 100 mph slower than Bf 109E.

Maneuverability of PZL P.11 was exeptional, it was the biggest advantage of the plane together with high service ceiling and good diving abilities, of course for a fixed-gear machine. G limit was 16g so pilot was limited only by his imagination and health. During 1939 campaing less then half of P.11s was shot down by enemy planes because the 11 were hard to shot down because of very good maneuverability and often 109 pilots were just flying away when they couldn't shot down the 11. Even once Stanislaw Skalski in P.11 was alone fighting with 3 109s and he survived. More than a half of the P.11s was destroyed on the ground. Despite all of this one of the best fighters of early 30's was completely outdated in 1939.


Now my vote. I voted on other because I want to bring another plane into discussion. The PZL P.24, final incarnation of original Pulawski's design. Never used by Polish Air Force but used by other countries. Maneuverability slighlty worse than P.11 because of increased weight but still very good and very good visibility.
Empty weight: 1330kg
Max takeoff weight: 2000kg
Powerplant: 970 hp (723 kW) Gnome-Rhône 14N.07 14-cylinder two-row radial engine
Speed: 430km/h at 4500m
Service ceiling: 10500m
Climb: 5m 40s to 5000m
Range: 700km
Armament: two 20mm cannons (Oerlikon FF) plus two 7.9mm MGs or four 7.9mm MGs
also the plane could take four 12.5kg bombs or two 50kg bombs


Plus beautiful looks (prototype on the photo).

[kool kitty89]

That's a good point, something to consider, with an enclosed cockpit as well.


The Miles M.20 was probably the best made, but it came a bit later (first flew in mid 1940), and didn't enter production.

[Oreo]

Now my vote. I voted on other because I want to bring another plane into discussion. The PZL P.24, final incarnation of original Pulawski's design. Never used by Polish Air Force but used by other countries. Maneuverability slighlty worse than P.11 because of increased weight but still very good and very good visibility.

Stink! I knew I'd forget one!

[Oreo]

The Miles M.20 was probably the best made, but it came a bit later (first flew in mid 1940), and didn't enter production.

I believe the M20 never saw squadron service, whereas the others did.

[kool kitty89]

Well, since it didn't enter production, that's kind of a given, I just thought it deserved a mention. (like the FDB-1 in the late biplane fighter thread)